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Automated Fixtures mac250 krypton vs. elation designspot 250 pro

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by Dreadpoet, Mar 31, 2009.

  1. Dreadpoet

    Dreadpoet Active Member

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    mac250 krypton vs. elation designspot 250 pro. Simple enough...of the two...which should I choose.

    Recognizing that I know I will be told..."it depends, what do you need it for?" in a side by side comparison, what do you think are one anothers strengths/ weaknesses. I am purchasing two of them, so budgetary concerns obviously sit squarly on elation's side, but am I gonna get more value out of the Martin in the long run? BTW, I'm leaning in the mac250's direction...
     
  2. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    Better question: For the price of the Martin fixture could you steup up to the Elation DS 300 Pro? If so I would suggest that, stepping into CMY land will make you happy!

    Other than that, having used gear from both manufacturers, and as an Elation product owner I can say that they make a very nice fixture. If you shot them side by side they would probably be very similar. In terms of features, they are about the same. I would imagine they are pretty close output wise as well.
     
  3. Dreadpoet

    Dreadpoet Active Member

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    I would love to step up a to cmy, but it looks like the mac250 krypton is about is high as I can go.
     
  4. theatre4jc

    theatre4jc Active Member

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    The cost of the Mac250 over the Elation really isn't that much more. I've not done side by side but have used both fixtures. Different events and the Elation one was a while ago but from what I remember the Mac250 had far better output, brighter more vivid white light. Which means better colors. Plus I don't trust the quality of the Elation parts. I'm pretty sure they are made in China, which means cheapest parts available. Once you factor in possible repair costs and probability of break down and I would bet (don't know for sure) the Martin fixture will in the end be cheaper than the Elation fixture.
     
  5. Esoteric

    Esoteric Well-Known Member

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    To me Martin and Elation are on the same level. I have used them side by side and they have the same output, colors, etc. If you maintain them they will last the same amount of time, and if you don't they will fail just as quickly.

    But if you can step up to the Elation 300 and get the CMY mixing.

    Mike
     
  6. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    The thing is that color temp and "vivid" white are almost more a function of the lamp, not the fixture. As for parts and service, it is probably equal. When it comes down to it, Martin is probably buying stepper motors from the factory across the street from Elation. They certainly don't make them in house in Denmark (or wherever Martin is). The Elation fixtures that I own are far more reliable than the other big name fixtures that I have.

    I wouldn't put Martin on the same level as Elation. Sure, they started in the same market, but Martin has been at it for much longer and probably has a better idea what they are doing then Elation. However, Elation is really pushing, and they make a very good quality product. It ain't a VL, but it gets the job done.
     
  7. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    I have used both fixtures, and I own the Macs. I remember the elations being a bit louder, but that was going 0-100 in a zero count. I would go with the Elation 300 if you can, I wish I had been here when they bought the macs I have and thats what I would have pushed for. In the future, its what I will be pushing for. I never want to own a fixture with static color wheels.

    If you really want to go all out though... The Clay Paky 300 fixtures are pretty sweet and not too much more then the Krypton.
     
  8. Dreadpoet

    Dreadpoet Active Member

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    I really wish I could get the cmy, but I would only be able to get one of them, and I really need two fixtures. Don't worry, cmy is in my future. I did notice a couple of things in side by side comparisons.

    1) the elation is $400.00 less (by the time I bought two, I could get a couple of source 4 jr's with the difference)

    2) the elation has two sets of gobo wheels -1 static, 1 rotating- with 7 gobo's per (any exerience with these?)

    3) the mac250 krypton claims to have 12 color positions (does this mean unique colors...or is half of that split colors?)

    As I wont be getting cmy, it might be nice to have more color slots availiable, however, if I can layer gobos like a dual rotating effect with the elation, and save $800 bucks in the process...that might be nice to.
     
  9. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    I have to ask this, and I should have earlier. What is the application? What is your space like? Are you buying moving fixtures because you need them or because you want them/think they are going to be cool? What are you going to be using them for? Mostly I am asking this because it doesn't totally add up for me, buying two of the lower end, low poser fixtures because that is what you can afford. It would make more sense if you were using them in a small black-box or a club. For most larger scale theatre operations these 250W fixtures usually weigh in as underpowered. They certainly won't cut through a bright stage wash. My 700W fixtures can't always do that. They are arc fixtures without CMY so blending them will be harder as well.

    I am not saying all this to dissuade you from getting them, but to make sure that you are spending wisely. If these fixtures work for your application then by all means get them. It just seems to me that if your application is theatre you should save your money or beg a little more to get a fixture with more attributes that are useful in a theatre setting (like CMY). It isn't the greatest mindset to think that you can buy XYZ now and then hope to upgrade it later. Down the road when you ask for money for more moving lights the answer might be "whats wrong with what you have?" It is better to buy the right tool for the job now then to try to make it work later.
     
  10. Dreadpoet

    Dreadpoet Active Member

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    certainly good questions. I am the departmental head of a drama program. However, I am also wanting to teach our techs in (some) entertainment technology...and I just can't do that without some movers. I currently have, besides the obvious conventionals, 2 mx10 extremes running from front of house that have about a 25' throw to lower midstage. These instruments, I might use on stage, but mostly all movers I own will be for classroom purposes, and when we would be dealing with lowlighting entertainment style situations (cheesy show choir stuff). The newer movers I'm looking at would be throwing from a 13'-20' distance at most. I am running all of this from the etc congo jr. I recognize that this is not ideal equipment, but for beginning level college students in an underfunded program, I think it might just do. :) I was thinking about it yesterday, this is my fourth year here at a way off the beaten path middle-america conservative junior college, I have gotten us a complete new stock of conventionals, new lighting console, sound system (top to bottom), new curtains, along with these movers.....I'm sure my administration hates me by now. :twisted:
     
  11. len

    len Well-Known Member

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    I've used both Martin and Elation a lot, although never side by side. I've never used the pro version, only the Elation DS 250. Compared to Martin I'd say they're about 70 - 80% as good. Since I don't do theater, I don't really care about noise. And I haven't tested them, but the Elation SEEMS a little slower, and a little dimmer. Also, I really don't like the stock gobos. Were I to buy a fixture right now, they'd still be strongly in the running, simply because they are a lot cheaper than Martin and some of the issues (speed, etc.) likely wouldn't make a difference to my clientele. But how one is going to use them really does make a difference.
     
  12. awhaley

    awhaley Member

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    I have also used both fixtures, but also never at the same time.

    I do agree with everyone else that CMY would be worth the extra money, if it could be found. But I understand that sometimes it's not there, and I think for what your objective is ( to give junior college students experience programming moving head fixtures) you're on the right track.

    For classroom use, I'd pick the Elation, and for show use, I'd pick the Martin. For your theatrical productions, the 12 color positions on the Martin are going to make you a lot happier than the 7 on the Elation, and i couldn't fine a brochure (admittedly, with only 5 minutes of googling) that specifically said that the elation dichroics can be swapped out... which the Martins can, so you can order new colors for the Martin that will help it blend with what you commonly use for theatre (L201, R04, R54, G841, whatever your designers like to use for pale tints....) It's no replacement for CMY, but it will make the fixture more useable. In the classroom, I prefer the Elation because subtlety isn't as important, and that 800 dollars could be spent on an two Apollo scrollers, or two ellipscan moving mirrors, or 4 LED pars, or 4 Enttec Pro DMX interfaces (so the students could program lights on their own computers with the MagicQ software) or a small hazer, etc... anything that adds a new technology to learn to your moving lights lab (anything except s-4 juniors... which I'm at war against, but that's another topic. ;) ) Plus you can teach gobo morphing on the Elations, but not on the MAC... which is a cool thing to include in their bag of tricks.

    As we compare moving light intensity, you really can't trust your eyes to tell you which light is brighter when they both have no color in front of the lamp... because the manufacturers tint their reflectors to make the light look 'cooler' than it really is and thus more 'brilliant.' The demo I saw (which was of course, engineered by Varilite) took a Mac 2000 and a VL2500 and showed that with no color in, their intensities looked comparable, though not exactly identical. But if you put the same color in front of the light, the Mac got perceptibly dimmer, because the mirror is actually LOSING light to look brighter by reflecting with the blue tint. If your purpose is going to be zipping lights around in no color to create a lot of motion effect (like in an night club) then this cool tinted mirror thing is fine, but if you actually want to USE the light for theatre, then you really need to do a little more investigation and compare the two lights side by side with gels, etc. to see which is going to give you more light in the colors you will use, if that's one of your criteria for selecting lights.

    Art Whaley
    Art Whaley Design
     
  13. Esoteric

    Esoteric Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, when comparing lights "side by side" you need to run them though their paces, not just look at them with no pattern and no color. I used the Martins and Elations in the same show and once I dimmed the lights where I couldn't see the fixture anymore, I couldn't pick out the Elations from the Martins. And after 10 years working with Martin to me their quality of parts/workmanship/customer service is about equal with Elation. This was not true eevn two years ago, but I use both brands on a regular basis now, and it is true today.

    Here is a pick of a mix of Martins and Elations.

    Mike

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Dreadpoet

    Dreadpoet Active Member

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    So that everyone knows which direction I am heading, as much attributed to your discussion, I will first turn in a request for the Martin, if rejected I will get the elation. What it came down too was that Elation is probably as good as the Martin...do I really want to make a "probably" purchase on a already lowerend product. The one thing that made me pause came from Awhaley in stating "you can teach gobo morphing on the Elations, but not on the MAC..." It was the first statement that put the Elation in front of the Martin that did not have to do with affordablity. That being said, if I were to get two more movers in this package, I would have definitly gone with Elation. I will turn to Elation when looking at obtaining CMY...so my admins better watch out. I think this has been a good discussion on the current state of Martin vs. Elation in terms of Elation having closed the gap in terms of quality and will undoubtedly push Martin to rethink their price point when moving into the current economic downturn.
     

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