Mixers/Consoles Mackie DL32R opinions?

[dvsDave]

My church is looking to go digital because we were just handed some serious space restrictions.

Background:

We meet in a middle school and over the years, they've graciously allowed us a fairly generous amount of dedicated backstage room to store our gear. (they only run 2 production a year and do not use the stage often) The arrangement has worked for many years. Last year another church started renting the school auditorium in the afternoons and they have not been good stewards of the space. It's been frustrating as the school officials have been getting frustrated at the issues (church #2 was not putting stuff away and they keep bringing more gear). We've been blamed for several of these issues and have been able to point out that in all of the cases it was church #2. Unfortunately the school had enough and seriously cut back our available space. I'm just thankful they still let us keep some gear there. However our analog Allen & Heath PA28 and outboard gear now takes up too much space.

TL/DR our old A&H PA28 mixer & outboard gear is physically too big, we need to cut down dramatially.

The proposed solution is to go digital and one of the other members of our sound team was researching the Mackie DL32R as a viable option. Unfortunately, he died rather unexpectedly and now I've been tasked to research this.

Does anybody have any experience with these? On paper it solves all of our issues, it does recording to external media, replaces all outboard gear except wireless mic receiver, has more than enough channels, has enough outputs and fits our size parameters. (no more snake, no more mixer, and a now smaller outboard rack)

Is there anything about this console, reliability wise or usability wise that I should be aware of? Are there any other consoles that would fit our space limitations that would give us a better bang for our buck?

I just want to make sure I know as much as I can before we even bring in a unit to demo.

Thanks,
dvsDave

 

[Footer]

Avoid it. Get an x32 core with an s32.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[dvsDave]

Oh, very nice. Not that big of a price difference either. Have you used the iPad interface?

 

[egilson1]

I was about to post the same type of question about the x32 and how people like it.

 

[derekleffew]

Ethan, see https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/behringer-x32.29720/ , and there are a few other threads.

 

[dvsDave]

Well, diving deeper into the Behringer rabbit hole, it certainly looks like even the XR18 Air could do the job and the Air has the bonus of working on Mac and Android. The other option I would look at is either just a X32 Rack by itself, or an X32 Core + SD16 digital snake. (I don't need more than 16 inputs, and I really do like the idea of the 4 P-16 Ultranet ports built into the SD16.

The only two big concerns I have is for simple recording (we just record the sermon, so we only need to record 1 channel) and two, can you use headphones to solo monitor the individual channels or even busses from a tablet or laptop?

 

[Footer]

The only two big concerns I have is for simple recording (we just record the sermon, so we only need to record 1 channel) and two, can you use headphones to solo monitor the individual channels or even busses from a tablet or laptop?

I don't think any of the devices will do that. Would be great, but is not there yet. You would need to get analog audio to your FOH position, think IEM pack. There are a TON of options with the Behringer route, only real question is what are your needs? The X-air (and tablet mixing in general) is great if you know whats coming. If you are dealing with the same "show" and same inputs week after week it'll work great. If you get changed a lot and have a lot of moves then your going to want a surface.

So....
-Do you have an analog snake now?
-Budget?
-Skill of operator?
-Number and type of inputs...
-Snowballs chance of hell of needing more inputs down the line?
-Monitor needs?

 

[dvsDave]

So....
-Do you have an analog snake now? Yes, but part of this project is to get rid of that.
-Budget? about $1800 to $2500ish. Wasn't handed a firm number.
-Skill of operator? Myself and 4 other guys (ranging from novice to experienced) We rotate who runs sound sunday to sunday.
-Number and type of inputs... (a typical service uses 6 instruments, 5 vocals, 1 wireless, and 1 podium, so 13 inputs on average, I've never used more than 16 ever.
-Monitor needs? Our current rig only has two monitor channels so that's all we use. I'd like to move to 3 monitor channels though.

 

[dvsDave]

Actually, apparently there was a gift given to the church specifically for this upgrade. So, we have closer to $5k

 

[chausman]

We just upgraded to an X32 Compact and SD16. I love it, although it's almost overkill for us at this point. Gives us 16 inputs on stage and FOH with a single Cat5 snake. The scribble strips are very useful for training new people and for less experienced ops.

You may also want to look at the Soundcraft UI series. I've heard good things about it, and it's about as cross platform as it gets (web based).

 

[ihitwithstix]

Since you have an expanded budget, I'd forget the x32 and the Mackie and look at a Soundcraft Ui16. Behringer is a cheap Mackie knock-off, despite their recent acquisition of Midas. And Mackie has become a cheap Mackie knock off lately, I'm sad to say. The Soundcraft will last for years longer than either of the other two. I've worked the x32 many times. The build quality is horrid. Faders should not have that much wobble, ever. Having worked with all three, the Soundcraft is by far the best , dollar for dollar.

 

[Footer]

Behringer is a cheap Mackie knock-off, despite their recent acquisition of Midas. And Mackie has become a cheap Mackie knock off lately, I'm sad to say.

Really? Strongly disagree with that statement.... The X32 that I own is going on 4 years old and its still performing like its new. The M32 I also own is an amazing console with great sound with excellent build quality. By far the most rider friendly desk under 32 channels. I also own an X-Air 12 and it has been perfect. Been in service for about a year and zero problems. I also own 2 Midas Pro2's... also good minus one shop trip due to a bad piece of road gear that blew out an AES card.

So Dave.. My 2-cents here... you don't want an iPad only console. I know it sounds nice but at your budget you are shooting yourself in the foot. You go X-Air or X32 rack/core if you have to. You don't do it voluntarily. The only time I have seen it be successful is with touring bands who are packing everything in the back of a sprinter and want an ears rig. You have to really know your show to make it work. The Behringer iPad and Android app are both excellent... but you don't want to live there all the time. The X-Air iPad app is complete garbage... I'll only use my Android stuff with our X-air.

So, with that, Midas M32R AND DL32. If you think you'll be at 16 channels for the longer term save a penny and get an DL16 and buy a good ethercon snake and a case. Hang onto your analog snake and you can throw that out if you have to push beyond your 16 onstage pre's. You won't find a better sounding or feeling desk for under 5k. Footprint will be a bit smaller.

 

[dvsDave]

So, why I get an M32R vs, say an X32 compact TP?

I agree that I want a physical desk, I mixed sound on Sunday and really paid attention to how I did my job and I was tweaking the mix constantly during worship. The only time I let it be was during the sermon.

I don't think I would want to mix an entire worship service on an iPad.

But, space is at a premium, and that is one of the primary drivers of this project. So, I am pretty set on a DL16, just have to decide on a desk and find a sturdy 75' Ethernet cable.

 

[FMEng]

It is a fair knock that Behringer WAS a Mackie knock off. It is no longer true. The X32 was revolutionary and changed the industry. Before it came along, you could not buy any digital console for less than $10,000. The newer competitors all better the X32 in some ways, but I still don't see any that match it for the breadth of features and price.

For what it's worth, I use an X32 Compact, and I get along fine with 16 faders faders. The 8 DCA/Buss faders can be switched to input faders, giving you 16 input faders across, when you want that. I chose the Compact mainly for the size and weight.

I like the angle of the screen of the M32R better, but it would add several inches to the height of the case. On the other hand, I like the placement of the fader layer buttons better on the X32 Compact. The Midas has better faders, and slightly improved preamps. However, I can't complain about either on the X32. You have to decide whether those nuances matter enough to justify the extra money.

Behringer now sells a rugged, shielded, network cable on a reel. The price of it is very reasonable. Be sure to use a shielded cable with Ethercon connectors, to avoid problems.

 

[Footer]

So, why I get an M32R vs, say an X32 compact TP?



But, space is at a premium, and that is one of the primary drivers of this project. So, I am pretty set on a DL16, just have to decide on a desk and find a sturdy 75' Ethernet cable.

There is a sonic difference. To my ears you only really hear it on acoustic instruments. There is also a massive fit and finish difference. The M32 feels as good as our Pro2 desks. The X32 feels good and will hold up great but there is something to be gained with the M32. An X32 with a S16 would work great. Same thing can be said for an M32 and a DL16. Depending on your PA you might not even hear the difference.

 

[FMEng]

You could also cheat and match the DL16 to the X32. That would give you the better preamps without paying for the M32. I probably would have done that, but I bought mine before the M32 and DL16 became available.

 

[dvsDave]

I looked at that when I started researching the M32 based on @Footer 's recommendation, but my research says the difference is fairly minor. The high end sounds a bit better, but my only instrument where I could really justify the expense would be a very infrequent violinist. However, I haven't had a chance to test drive either unit yet, but I have a local supplier who will be bringing an X32 to a Sunday service to test drive.

 

[funkcity]

I looked at that when I started researching the M32 based on @Footer 's recommendation, but my research says the difference is fairly minor. The high end sounds a bit better, but my only instrument where I could really justify the expense would be a very infrequent violinist. However, I haven't had a chance to test drive either unit yet, but I have a local supplier who will be bringing an X32 to a Sunday service to test drive.

That Mackie with the new DC16 Axis control surface looks like a winner!!!
Check out the YouTubes.

 

[brin831]

Honestly look at the si impact retail is right I line with the above has an option to use analog snake or digital stage box or combination of both.

IPad app

Multi-track record I am biased bc I have one but mixed on most of the stuff listed and I greatly prefer it to the m32 x32 line