Andy_Leviss said:
rapscaLLion said:
but then
theatre is inherently not safe.
NO.
NO.
NO.
And, did I mention,
NO!
If this is your attitude, please, don't ever come anywhere remotely near any
venue I'm working in.
Theatre, done properly, is extremely safe. If it's not, you're doing something wrong, probably illegal, and just plain out stupid, and I don't want to be anywhere where I could (at worst) be hurt by you, or (at best) find myself as an additional party to the barrage of lawsuits that result when you hurt somebody else.
Give some credit to rapscaLLion. Theater as a general statement is very much true to be inherently not safe, and this project controller was unsafe even if well done and as as safe as much possible in some major ways beyond function. Still in even those constructing it realizing that it was not the optimum solution - or why will it have been posted about. Still it did function well for them and was a job well done in getting the show up and running. rapscaLLion's quote was more a statement amongst these lines at times in it would seem agreeing with your
point but also realizing that at times you do stuff that will function even if stupid as long as as safe as possible in construction and method, and in general citing that theater in general is not safe.
This no matter if it's a question of the in-experienced at flying in a bottom of
scrim pipe weighted
scrim during a scene that watches the
line instead of the
stage than hits an actor standing below the
scrim, or to the extent of having those that really don't know better than allowing as safe a plywood box construction as the best suitable lighting controller for the contest given computer light boards would it seems
throw the advantage to those that can afford such things. I expect that those approving of the light board did not even open it up in approvign of it - given it could have been really scarry for all they knew.
Get my
point here? Theater is unsafe be it from some
stage pin plug that does not have a
strain relief or ferrules under the
terminal due of course to the fact that those doing the show were pushed for time in getting something done and did not realize or care for the extra nuances of doing things properly in necessity, to that tech person that with long hair does not tie it back and gets the hair caught in the chuck of the drill. Theater in ever so many ways is unsafe from people falling into the pit since pit nets are rare, to in general that learning curve of those doing the thing, but not doing it properly yet doing so also.
Want fear in saying don't come near where I work? Imagine my extent of fear about all posters that do everything correctly - at least to the best of their knowledge. Long posts often on my part as a coverall even don't
cover for my own fears in people getting killed either on their own or by way of mis-understanding my advice even.
Electrically, I'm one of two Master Electricians at one of the probably top five or ten multi-million dollar lighting companies in the industry. Neither of us ME's know it all, but we do have some interesting debates and consultations between us. Alone, no I don't consider myself as knowing all or perfect in being safe. Just sent out on a major tour a
fixture with a cracked lamp
base. I tested and theorized that it was for the most part safe to use unless it cracked further. Plus instructed the crew chief to examine it and all lamp bases before each show given specific design flaws in the lighting
fixture, but was it perfectly safe to be doing - that which gets the
fixture out the door? Nope, on a 2Kw lighting
fixture. This crew chief I trust will look at what he was instructed to look at but probably will not.
Even given my own limited or extensive knowledge about some things, and otherwise recognition that I'm not perfect, just had a show in Mexico which had a
adaptor that if I did not
build, I was supervising a crew in building. This
adaptor had a hot
ground mis-wire and I did not pre-test the adaptors. It went up in
smoke during the show in taking some gear with it. Just so happens that it was attached to the light board and given a
UPS system, it would than not shut off.
Even I screw up in perhaps being one of the more trusted people and knowing what I'm doing but at times not even testing my or the work done I supervise. Were it up to me and had I time or not been so lazy in getting it done but not personally ensured it worked I would than ban all other gear worked on by others. As reality, I don't have time nor ability to ensure all other tech people in the shop much less on site are either supervised by me or have at least proper training in what they are doing. Wish I could be the only one wiring up these 250 new
LED fixtures we just got in, but it's absolutely not within my time constraints.
Is it safe for me to not even supervise given I'm really busy on other projects? Much less I don't even trust the college graduates ability to
wire a
Leko for a replacement
whip. Would much rather personally do so iyet my time available to do the simple much less supervision is very limited. Hopefully they are trained, or the department for Lekos supervisor is adiquately supervising in my place - not that I even trust her.
Get the
point here? Even at a Multi-Million dollar company, neiter can I above training to the extent possible and supervision or in having enough time to do all the work myself but at times screwing up myself or not knowing it all is my efforts perfect. It's instead as safe as I can make it or hope to have the ability to ensure. Have a hung follow spot bridge for this tour I'm buying equipment for. No time to ensure those parts I buy are used correctly. Has this say 10' by 16' section of platformed
truss that three +$1,200.oo each
Lycian 1290 follow spots that weigh about #200 each without stand on it and the entire assembly with people is flown by four chain hoists. To ensure the spots can't move, I specified some
Rosco brand D-Ring on Plate assemblies that by way of my recommendation were thru-bolted as if soft
flat in installation onto the 3/4" Plywood scaff
platform sections. Such was done but I did not have a chance to look at how well done. In attaching such plates it's at times not the number of bullet holes
thru the plywood as that ability of the plywood to deal with a number of holes close together that might instead require some thru-bolted holes and others just screwed down. This given the plywood was not thought of by those doing it to be sandwiched between a secondary piece of metal plate. Can't really vouch for any of the construction on this thing be it how the
platform in preventing should the hoists make the
platform at an angle come loose, much less the Home Depot hook type
ratchet strap quality in holding down the stands should the
platform tip. This with electrics is stuff I know to some extent but even here am far too busy to ensure or at least observe for what I might find unsafe to the extent helpful in making it safe. Saw a curious piece of lumber in the construction, but did not even beyond trust of the crew chief, have time to look at it's installation more than just finding it curious while walking by. In a very serious way, I have to trust someone else knows what he is doing, yet it's a given this person does know what he is doing both in inspection the same as me for those that don't and in general for his own abilities.
This is a professional shop and when informed about a project at very least I give at least similar explinations if not in person demonstrations in detail similar to those presented here. On the 250 new
LED wash lights we got in, they need
safety cables in rigging them. Didn't get into ensuring all mounting for the bracket screws are tight if not even thread lockered given it's architectural units and not as rugged, nor equipment I would like to be seeing used. Still when the question of how to
safety cable them was put in my lap, I showed how best to do it. This was a loop of 1/8"
wire rope thru a drill hole in the bracket. Simple enough, and I can live with the larger loops those doing so decided upon their own to start doing without asking permission to do. In walking by the project later, I noted in looking at everything in my area as I do my walk by's that on this 1/8"
Nicopress sleeve that only two of the three crimps necessary for a crimped oval sleeve was done to a
fixture. I stopped and raised hell as it were. Those currently working on the project were it would seem not those that started and did this
safety hazzard. Much less stupid thing shown. Those doing the project currently would correct the problem and follow
thru in a proper
crimp - given I ensusure almost monthly the
crimp tool they use is within safe clamping pressure by way of go/no-go
gauge. They would also ensure this idiot that cut corners was informed of his mistake as well as me being pissed now would remember him. A question of if he saw something done in such a way why he would cut corners in doing it differently might be of question here also, but given he was not qualified to be doing this and nobody else in supervising his work was supervising him, there would be a whole lot of people fired where it being qualified to work here a question. Much less in that there is no certification beyond personal study and past experience in proper training I have over anyone else thus what's their own problem in doing stuff right? More a question of immediacy to learn and paying attention I would expect im most cases of those that will some day be a gas station attendant as opposed to those that can retire in the theater.
Still we sent out it would seem 16 of these fixtures with
safety cables clipped to them that only had two crimps for an un-explained reason on a show. Beyond being pissed in general, and considering the difficulty of finding these now 16 out of 250 fixtures that don't have a safe
crimp to them - or even finding time to search for them, the two crimps to a 1/8" sleeve is for the most part safe enough for a less than 5#
fixture. I do need to find time to
track down which show such equipment went out on and contact the crew chief for it to either have them add another
crimp to the
safety cable or
mark the fixtures to see me after the show. This is necessary but very also difficult to follow
thru on given a extreme work load. I will be lucky short of E-Mail reminder once the day starts to remember that we are running short of 1/4-20 Nylock nuts and I need to buy more much less the
safety cable issue.
Given this, I can't say I'm 100% safe, nor given even pro company what those other than me do is safe. Knowing better is a major quetion in being safe also. This person
crimping safety cables it would be assumed did not know better. He did the safe thing, but as with all you had better not come to my theater with such a unsafe attitude, it might be expressed no matter where, such intent in doing proper but not being perfect in being safe verses what is absolute in unsafe by intent of just doing stuff to get it done. This person above in doing
safety cables no doubt used the
crimp tool properly though I did not go/no-go
gauge the crimps in my own lack of thought about it for a supervisior, simply for some un-known reason he just made two crimps in the
wire rope. Even the 20 or more year experience shop manager does not know
NEC rules or at times what's safe to be doing others cannot correct him on. Much less in not being perfect or the other ME also so, we both help each other and watch out much less seek the advice of each other.
Don't become complacient in being a perfect theater tech person, nor in only doing what's safe. What you don't psysically inspect, instruct, and supervise on than will be your failing - this given even the perfect tech person knows better or all ways that will injure or be unsafe. Much less you can't ensure every component or aspect of what happens. This is reality. Yes, always or to what extent possible, make it as safe as possible. If there is a pipe that sticks out,
mark it in white
gaff tape so someone does not walk into it. Even this than would only be due consideration as opposed to an absolute of
safety.
So in reality, theater or tech is very unsafe. This is a confirmed statement and accurate. Some question of making it as safe as possible will alter the extent of this, but it's still a question of many things factoring in. Those that become complacient and too sure of their being safe on the other
hand are much more dangerous than those that recognize that theater is a dangerous place as a blanket statement and given this do their best, and further hope and strive for others to also do so. It's not a safe place. Our shop General Manager was the one that found the hot/
ground reverse and
UPS system. It does not in the end matter if it was I who wired the
plug in at times I can simply put wires into holes and make a mistake, or if it was from someone else. In making something like 60 adaptors for this show, It was my screw up in not testing each
adaptor - no matter how late into the night and how un-trained the crew making the adaptors. That the gear went out without testing means something to that person that gives me my raises in balance with what gear might get destroyed by my lack of follow
thru.
Hope it helps. Intent is to be safe but the reality of it is theater is not safe and we stand between what without supervision will injure or kill or what when watched and done as best possible will work, verses some willy nilly attempt at throwing something together that should be blocked but often is not either seen or realized to be so. One would not believe the amount of pro gear that comes back from shows which is not ours. Such pro gear be it from architectural
dimmer in a 1900 box with it's knockout slugs punched in or even missing, and
wire nuts inside falling off that I see are amost common. Lots of ways to do this more same and I would bet what's general discussion on this topic was much more safe. Still the concept is a necessity that was accomplished in the best way possible and with intent. Best option for doing so, certainly not we all probably stand for. Still necessary and if well done will serve doing so? That's a question those approving of the gear and supervision it's construction can only answer given their own qualifications to be doing so.
This goal of being completely safe or wavering what is not specifically so but is safe for what is
practical, in training or supervising those are paid to ensure is well worth it. There is still some factor in being perfect and doing the reality of it that is inperfect and even than unsafe. How many people have been shocked by spinning the lamp in a
UL-Listed PAR 64
fixture?
Today I repaired a 2/0
feeder cable that for some reason was de-loomed on site. Some very major even inner
conductor cutting de-looming action going on there with the knife blade not only cutting the outer
jacket but
in one instance cutting conductors. Yet did this professional that is expected to be a professional even
mark where they very dangerously and seriously screwed up in even marking where they as un-skilled labor cut the cable
jacket? Nope, some high school
drop out without any real training luckily noted it for him a few weeks after the deed was done before he did his job of re-looming as a more simple part of his job description and qualification. Such are common repair needs found by me. In not going on a soap box, nobody you or I is perfect in what we ensure to be safe, or even that we allow when at times the best way of doing something yet not pattently safe.
This business is unsafe. WE strive to make it safe in all ways possible and depend that others will do so also, but at some
point as a blanket statement given how much is going on at once, and how many things can go wrong the statement that theater is unsafe is accurate in general. As safe as possible would be more accurate but flexible where absolutely necessary.
