Male XLR wall jacks only?
- Thread starterACTSTech
- Start date
@Jay Ashworth When Neutrik initially invented / marketed NL2 Speak On's, a common uneducated / inexperienced / untrained ape trick was to mis-mate NL2 cable ends with panel mounts rotated 180 degrees from correct (Touring rock groups HATED discovering this when hastily striking for an 11:00 p.m. load out). Yes, you can do this if you lean on them hard enough to momentarily / slightly deform the plastic prior to twisting them. Once mis-mated in this manner, it's basically impossible to un-mate them sans damage.Oh yeah. The release clips on A3F's break and jam a *lot*, if you're not careful with them, usually locking in a plug in the process.
We've had 3 or 4 of them break that way in the 5 years I've been at my main house. Sure, it's mostly an annoyance, but if you're using everything in the box, and curtain is in 90 minutes, it's a pretty MAJOR annoyance.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
Per damaged connector...
YesItWillWork
Member
We ended up with this situation when we opened our new facility last year, albeit unintentionally. The drawings clearly identified the count of male and female XLR connectors at each of the various panels around the building. The explanatory notes then made clear that the gender is to be reversed in the central patch rack. Unfortunately the contractor missed that note and thought it made more sense for both ends of a wayline to match.
This was only discovered when when I went to patch something for an event during our opening week. Needless to say the contractor spent a lot of time resoldering connectors the next week.
This was only discovered when when I went to patch something for an event during our opening week. Needless to say the contractor spent a lot of time resoldering connectors the next week.
Craig Hauber
Well-Known Member
Isn't "A3F" a Switchcraft part number for a female cord connector?
or has that now become the "Kleenex" terminology describing anything XLR?
I used to exclusively install D3F switchcraft panel mounts (and their Cannon and Amphenol equivalents.) I found they held up so much better than the original Neutrik ones (P-type). Nowadays when everything is pre-punched to fit the smaller standardized D-size Neutrik style I've switched to them -but it's been years since I've done an XLR installation.
I did have a quick trick with the bench grinder to eliminate the latching action on the D3F types before the non-latching varieties became far easier to source.
Jay Ashworth
Well-Known Member
It is a Switchcraft designator, yes, but it tells me what pin count and polarity, without any fuss, so I've generalized it.
Jay Ashworth
Well-Known Member
I don't mean to dump on you, but didn't you have an acceptance walkthrough somewhere before that first show
This is the problem in my area, which I've lamented over and over in many posts on here...
Our location is not great for knowledgeable people, therefore we get a lot of people who "know" what they're doing because they've "done it before." As a non-profit, dealing with tax codes and grants and whatnot, we HAVE to accept the lowest bid most of the time, so we get some questionable deals. I have no desire to deal with questionable right now, and reading riser diagrams and cabling specifications and everything else is so frustrating. I don't ever proclaim to know everything, and I know things are changing, but the XLR thing blew my mind, especially when I made calls and found out that these people have done it in MANY places.
After reading all of the posts (Thank you for proving that I'm not insane, or at least we're all on the same page of insanity), I sent a message to both the electrician and architect reiterating my specs (which you all seconded) and they have already started pushing back. They also are VERY RELUCTANT to use Neutrik because it is a "new" technology. I said I didn't care, spec the SpeakON twist-lock connectors for the speakers, the female XLR on the wall, and my DMX design (which was in a different post). Now to battle their custom cloud panels which will help the acoustics... because in a hard surfaced room we definitely need more hard surfaces to create more bounce... and they fabricate these themselves...
Thanks for the help!
Tell them to pound sand. Put it in writing that as an owner's representative, Switchcraft connectors and "all-male" panel mounts shall not be acceptable.
You're the owner and the district standard moving forward is Neutrik. Neutrik's dominated the connector market for at least the last 2 decades. There's nothing "new" about it.
You're the owner and the district standard moving forward is Neutrik. Neutrik's dominated the connector market for at least the last 2 decades. There's nothing "new" about it.
Reply from the "design team":
"This will greatly impact the price of our quote. We understand your perspective and greatly differ on installation needs."
Apparently the cost of female XLR jacks is greatly different...
But list price for female XLR chassis connectors is roughly $3 a piece. So when I see a quote for something outrageous, I'm going to be upset.
Mind you, I'm not against paying for it to be done right the first time. But I'm not going to accept the bait and switch that people in this area seem to be adept at doing. I get bashed for people thinking I'm not willing to pay, but I'm NOT willing to pay for substandard work priced far above market value.
Switchcraft isn't any/much cheaper than Neutrik. They're probably using generic XLR connectors, which would be why they are having problems with jacks failing in the first place.
I would pick up the phone to the architect and reiterate your position. Don't be afraid to lambast the electrical a little a bit. "If I understand this correctly, the electrical contractor is pricing the project with substandard components and proposing a convoluted workaround rather than providing a quality, professional-grade product. If the female connectors they typically provide have routine failures, we should not expect that the male connectors they want to provide would fare any better. We will not accept solutions that deviate from industry standards and practices based on the electrical contractor providing generic XLR connectors that are known to become faulty over time."
As you said, the unit price -- especially when buying in bulk -- is not very high. More of the cost is in labor for soldering/termination than anything else. The material cost for the connectors should be insignificant.
Right now on Markertek....
Neutrik NC3FD-L-BAG-1
QTY 1-99 ............. $2.95/ea
QTY 100-249 ..... $2.89/ea
Neutrik NC3MD-L-BAG-1
QTY 1-99 ............. $3.26/ea
QTY 100-249 ..... $3.13/ea
Ignore list price -- nobody ever pays list.
Don't be afraid to play dumb and make the contractor explain it to you why their pricing will change significantly. That's usually where you find out if they're playing games or if there's something else going on. It could be the contractor is trying to get it through their usual electrical contracting distributors which will not get the kind of discounted pricing you'd get by ordering from a proper AV dealer/distributor. In any case, you've probably exhausted the usefulness of trying to communicate this over email and now it's time to pick up the phone.
I would pick up the phone to the architect and reiterate your position. Don't be afraid to lambast the electrical a little a bit. "If I understand this correctly, the electrical contractor is pricing the project with substandard components and proposing a convoluted workaround rather than providing a quality, professional-grade product. If the female connectors they typically provide have routine failures, we should not expect that the male connectors they want to provide would fare any better. We will not accept solutions that deviate from industry standards and practices based on the electrical contractor providing generic XLR connectors that are known to become faulty over time."
As you said, the unit price -- especially when buying in bulk -- is not very high. More of the cost is in labor for soldering/termination than anything else. The material cost for the connectors should be insignificant.
Right now on Markertek....
Neutrik NC3FD-L-BAG-1
QTY 1-99 ............. $2.95/ea
QTY 100-249 ..... $2.89/ea
Neutrik NC3MD-L-BAG-1
QTY 1-99 ............. $3.26/ea
QTY 100-249 ..... $3.13/ea
Ignore list price -- nobody ever pays list.
Don't be afraid to play dumb and make the contractor explain it to you why their pricing will change significantly. That's usually where you find out if they're playing games or if there's something else going on. It could be the contractor is trying to get it through their usual electrical contracting distributors which will not get the kind of discounted pricing you'd get by ordering from a proper AV dealer/distributor. In any case, you've probably exhausted the usefulness of trying to communicate this over email and now it's time to pick up the phone.
Malabaristo
Well-Known Member
I don't have anything else meaningful to add to this conversation--it's obviously a ridiculous approach, and everyone has covered that well. I will say that you should feel free to pass on our communal thanks to the electricians for providing us all with this nice bit of comedy. I can't imagine I was the only one who was literally laughing out loud while reading your description of what they were proposing.
Perhaps they have already got the quote and this is now a change order. That could raise the price quite a bit.
Jay Ashworth
Well-Known Member
Components are cheap; people are expensive.
If I had to work in your facility with backwards XLRs on all the patch points, I would, no crap, quit.
If I had to work in your facility with backwards XLRs on all the patch points, I would, no crap, quit.
I hope you'd discover it during the facility walk through prior to accepting an offer. These are "finds of foreboding" - when you see things like this it makes you wonder what other non-standard delights await your discovery.
Crisp image
Well-Known Member
Jay Ashworth
Well-Known Member
"Brown M&M's."
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