Martin Atomic 3000

[JD]

You can enhance the brightness at 120 volts by upping the gauge of the power cable you run between your distro and the strobe. These strobes work by firing the lamp directly across the AC line for a small fraction of the AC waveform. At that point, the only thing limiting the power flow is the resistance of the power cable. Although the prorated duration of the direct (or near, as there is some drop across the lamp) short is too brief to trip out OCPD or the unit fuse, getting rid of (or minimizing) external resistance can really give it some kick!

Note- In "blinder mode" they are still only passing a fraction of the waveform, they are just doing it on every cycle.

 

[bishopthomas]

You know, I have a supplier who INSISTS that there are two models. I've brought up the manual and different lamps and he stays committed to his (wrong, IMO) information.

 

[jhochb]

Good Morning

The fixture & electronics are the same.
The differences are :
The dip switch setting
The lamp
And the LAMP HOLDER ( the MAX-15 lamp is longer )


To change a 120v / MAX-7 fixture to a 208v MAX-15
You need to change the lamp holder & lamp
Put a 240v plug on the line cord
And change the DIP SWITCHS

So if your rental house doesn't have the 120v / MAX-7 fixture
maybe they just don't want to explain the difference or won't change it over.

Yes Martin sells it as 2 Different models

　from the manual
ORDERING INFORMATION
Atomic 3000 EU model (MAX-15 lamp, 200-240 V) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . P/N 90424200
Atomic 3000 US model (MAX-7 lamp, 100-120 V) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . P/N 90424300

AC
POWER
Approved AC power (MAX-7 model) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .100 - 120 V nominal, 50/60 Hz
Approved AC power (MAX-15 model) . . . . . . . . . . . . . .200 - 240 V nominal, 50/60 Hz

 

[bishopthomas]

Ah, it's the lamp holder that probably turns it into more of a process. Just switching the lamp can't be more than a 60 second ordeal. If you have to change out the holder then it might involve more twists of a screwdriver than most rental shops care to do.

 

[techieman33]

Ah, it's the lamp holder that probably turns it into more of a process. Just switching the lamp can't be more than a 60 second ordeal. If you have to change out the holder then it might involve more twists of a screwdriver than most rental shops care to do.

Agreed, it sounds like it's to much work to switch back and forth easily, and then you need to keep twice the lamps on hand in the shop.

 

[Sean]

Good Morning

The fixture & electronics are the same.
The differences are :
The dip switch setting
The lamp
And the LAMP HOLDER ( the MAX-15 lamp is longer )


To change a 120v / MAX-7 fixture to a 208v MAX-15
You need to change the lamp holder & lamp
Put a 240v plug on the line cord
And change the DIP SWITCHS

So if your rental house doesn't have the 120v / MAX-7 fixture
maybe they just don't want to explain the difference or won't change it over.

Yes Martin sells it as 2 Different models

　from the manual
ORDERING INFORMATION
Atomic 3000 EU model (MAX-15 lamp, 200-240 V) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . P/N 90424200
Atomic 3000 US model (MAX-7 lamp, 100-120 V) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . P/N 90424300

AC
POWER
Approved AC power (MAX-7 model) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .100 - 120 V nominal, 50/60 Hz
Approved AC power (MAX-15 model) . . . . . . . . . . . . . .200 - 240 V nominal, 50/60 Hz

If one wanted to change the lamp holder, what part/part number would one request from a company such as Barbizon?

 

[len]

Oh, I know the above.

My concern is that I have both vendors AND rental shops telling me they cannot supply the 120v fixtures because they don't have them. NOT the lamps--the fixtures.

What I'm trying to figure out is if there IS only one fixture, or if there are in fact different versions of the Atomic floating around. Or, has there ONLY ever been one fixture that took two lamps?

--Sean

No, it's the lamp. They're probably telling you this because some customers don't know better, or the person saying it doesn't know better. So if they tell you "we ONLY have the 208v version" you're less likely to run the 208v lamp on 110v or vice versa. And if you must run at 110v you're probably better off just getting another product, even though I don't know anything that's as powerful as the Atomic.

 

[HOHSIS]

Going to be using 3 Atomic 3000 at an upcoming event, and I was wondering if anyone has used both the MAX15 AND MAX7 lamps at their recommended voltages and can explain the difference in light output between the 2? The way Martin's website and the manual read, it seems like they have the same output but are just separated based on what the requirements are for the venue power.

 

[Wood4321]

Going to be using 3 Atomic 3000 at an upcoming event, and I was wondering if anyone has used both the MAX15 AND MAX7 lamps at their recommended voltages and can explain the difference in light output between the 2? The way Martin's website and the manual read, it seems like they have the same output but are just separated based on what the requirements are for the venue power.

My impression is that the max 15 version is brighter, and has a much longer duty cycle.
That being said, if you aren't using the blinder mode, either will be acceptable. Just make sure to designate a 20 amp circuit for each fixture, no matter the voltage.

 

[JD]

For extra punch, use 10/3 as your cable. High power strobes fire the lamp right across the line, so it is effectively a very brief dead short! Current is limited by longer length cables and the resistance of whatever cable gauge is being used. The bigger the pipe, the brighter the flash. Although the "run" current is below 20 amps, the actual peak current during the flash is what makes or breaks it. Try running one in the shop as a test off a 100 foot length of 16/3, 12/3, and 10/3 and you will see what I mean.

 

[Wood4321]

For extra punch, use 10/3 as your cable. High power strobes fire the lamp right across the line, so it is effectively a very brief dead short! Current is limited by longer length cables and the resistance of whatever cable gauge is being used. The bigger the pipe, the brighter the flash. Although the "run" current is below 20 amps, the actual peak current during the flash is what makes or breaks it. Try running one in the shop as a test off a 100 foot length of 16/3, 12/3, and 10/3 and you will see what I mean.

Yea, John is correct, at least about the cabling, (I didn't know that the strobes fire across the line?)
The peak current draw on that fixture is 33 amps, with a nominal draw of 8 amps. Short cable runs, and large gauge are your friends whenever using high power strobes.

 

[JD]

Yea, John is correct, at least about the cabling, (I didn't know that the strobes fire across the line?)
The peak current draw on that fixture is 33 amps, with a nominal draw of 8 amps. Short cable runs, and large gauge are your friends whenever using high power strobes.

Yea, nothing new on the design. A flash cap that large would make the thing twice as big and 10 times heavier. The design is amazingly simple. There is a large diode in series with the lamp. There is a ramp generator much like in a dimmer. The lamp is fired into conduction late in the ac cycle and although there is some voltage drop, it's a pretty nasty load! You vary the brightness depending on how late into the cycle the trigger fires. As the voltage reverses polarity in the second half of the cycle, the diode blocks flow and the lamp drops out of conduction. (and rests!) In "blinder" mode, it is being fired every other half cycle, so it is actually blinking on and off 60 times per second. (not 120 as the second half is blocked.) To the eye, it appears to be on continuously.
This "firing across the line" is why a different lamp is used on the 120 volt and 208/240 volt models. The higher voltage lamp has a bit less gas and therefore more resistance so that it doesn't Chernobyl on you.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

I didn't think a Xenon tube would *fire* at 120V. They do?

 

[JD]

I didn't think a Xenon tube would *fire* at 120V. They do?

All in the gassing of the lamp. Photo strobes usually run at a much higher voltage (450 - 600 vdc), but these lamps are designed to work at a pretty low voltage. Once you ignite the arc (via a HV pulse transformer) the actual arc sustains at a pretty low voltage.

I remember the first Diversitronics super strobe I repaired back in the 80's. Opened it up and there was noting much inside! Diode, trigger transformer, a small 12 volt transformer for the wired remote, about 2 transistors and a small SCR to drive the pulse transformer! Real eye-opener!

 

[HOHSIS]

Thanks for the replied guys.

Currently I have a dedicated 15A circuit for each strobe, not entirely sure what gauge cable is being run to them, power is being provided by a group internal to my university (RIT tech crew, for those wondering) and I don't think I can have direct control over which cable gauges they use (or even if they know what I'm talking about, they probably just have a pile of power distro break out cables lying in storage somewhere) but I'll have to check.

I can, however, have them change those circuits to 20A if that is necessary.

 

[JD]

Breaker will either hold or trip, but will not effect the brightness. I suspect you should move it to a 20 so there are no embarrassing moments in the show. Most stage cable is 12/3 SO, but on the off chance that they used 14/3, they may up-gauge simply because it is now on a 20. Circuit breakers do not actually limit current flow, they simply interrupt it should the flow persist above the rating. Speed of interruption is a sliding scale, starting below the breakers rated size. (Thus the 20% de-rate rule on non-switchboard equipment.)

 

[Jay Ashworth]

For the record, if you can run something that power intensive at 240 sted 120, that would be a good thing to do -- especially since it's hard power, no dimmer involved. Twice the voltage, half the current; much less copper... even at the cable rating you should be using.

[ though, on reflection, since it's a different lamp, that truism may not, actually, be true in this specific case; I'm not familiar enough with the fixture that you should take this opinion as gospel. ]

 

[Jay Ashworth]

My favorite comment in a user manual, evar:

1. Whether or not you value your life, disconnect the fixture from AC power and allow the capacitor to discharge for 1 minute.

 

[HOHSIS]

To err on the side of caution I swapped out the atomic circuits to 20A independent now. I'll ask about the cable gauge, but I'm assuming it will be 12/3.

I'm keeping it at 120, as per what the manual says. According to Martin, the MAX-7 is recommended to be used in the 90-120V range.

 

[JD]

To err on the side of caution I swapped out the atomic circuits to 20A independent now. I'll ask about the cable gauge, but I'm assuming it will be 12/3.

I'm keeping it at 120, as per what the manual says. According to Martin, the MAX-7 is recommended to be used in the 90-120V range.

Yea, you wouldn't want to run a MAX-7 (with 120v lamp) on 240v unless you like to see things fly apart

@Jay Ashworth
For sure you would never want to open either up for lamp replacement until the power supply cap bled off. That little pulse transformer kicks at 4,000 to 9,000 volts, like a defibrillator in reverse.