Martin Atomic 3000

[JD]

Measuring pin 2 and 5 on the tny255, I'm getting .44vdc

If, and only if that voltage is correct, then you have your answer! There is no way the primary of that transformer is dropping the rest of that voltage. It is open.

That being said, some of these voltages make so little sense, I think it's time to recheck them with another meter. 315vdc on C1, off of 120vac source, with the primary open makes no sense.

 

[Trike]

Thanks JD, I know I have a cheapie harbor freight multi meter somewhere. I'll compare it to the Fluke 73 I've been using. But yeah, I'm measuring 119vac going into the rectifier and getting over 300vdc on the output of the rectifier. Checking my fluke against a 12v source is showing the correct 12v.

How "standard" are these transformers? I looked up the part# for it and didn't get any hits besides the martin specific parts that are unavailable now. The only specs I saw is that, it's a 3-10w transformer.

 

[JD]

That is a popular switching circuit, so I am sure there is an equivalent out there. If indeed the other meter agrees, then it is time to carefully check the board for any ring cracks around the transformer pads. If none are found, unsolder the transformer and measure the primary ohms out of circuit. It it measures open, then let the search begin.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

For extra punch, use 10/3 as your cable. High power strobes fire the lamp right across the line, so it is effectively a very brief dead short! Current is limited by longer length cables and the resistance of whatever cable gauge is being used. The bigger the pipe, the brighter the flash. Although the "run" current is below 20 amps, the actual peak current during the flash is what makes or breaks it. Try running one in the shop as a test off a 100 foot length of 16/3, 12/3, and 10/3 and you will see what I mean.

So, this leads me to a followup question for our NEC guys:

If you were installing a single-receptacle 240/20 branch circuit for this, which would normally require 12AWG THHW (I think) in the conduit, could you leave the breaker and receptacle at 20A, but go to 10AWG for this reason without violating code? As long as the breaker is not rated higher than the receptacle, and the wire is rated at least as high, you're golden, right?

 

[JD]

So, this leads me to a followup question for our NEC guys:

If you were installing a single-receptacle 240/20 branch circuit for this, which would normally require 12AWG THHW (I think) in the conduit, could you leave the breaker and receptacle at 20A, but go to 10AWG for this reason without violating code? As long as the breaker is not rated higher than the receptacle, and the wire is rated at least as high, you're golden, right?

Considering, the up-gauge is required on longer runs, I would sure think so! The only thing that might shoot it down is if the receptacle itself was not rated to handle #10.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Ah. See, I never did commercial, so I didn't realize they did that. Could that leave you in a circumstance where -- as someone recently... oh, no, that was on the Transmitter Sites group.

Well, in any event, if you had to upsize the run, and the fixture wouldn't accept it, would that be a valid reason for a different-size down-splice without additional OC protection? Assuming "yes".

 

[JD]

Mr @STEVETERRY would know for sure, but there are two common applications where a 20 amp circuit is run with #10. The first is length, and the second is the current de-rating that occurs as you increase the number of conductors in a given run. One would thing you could drop to #12 at the receptacl via wire nuts. I have often seen stranded THHN switched to solid at the receptacle box for the last two inches. The stranded cable makes for an easier pull, and the solid for a better connection on screw terminal receptacles.

 

[MikeJ]

Current on an Atomic 3000 is Listed as 8 amps, and 33 amps peak. They should be run on a 20A circuit, and they have a 20A slow blow fuse in the fixture, fwiw. I doubt in real world conditions, you will notice any difference between 12 and 10ga cable. Just make sure whatever you use is SOOW.

 

[JD]

Current on an Atomic 3000 is Listed as 8 amps, and 33 amps peak. They should be run on a 20A circuit, and they have a 20A slow blow fuse in the fixture, fwiw. I doubt in real world conditions, you will notice any difference between 12 and 10ga cable. Just make sure whatever you use is SOOW.

You would be very surprised! The strobe works by firing the lamp as a virtual "dead short*" across the AC line. As such, everything you see is that fraction of a second while the short is occurring. Atomics, like the Diversitronicss of old work on this rather than a storage capacitor. I remember having a 75 foot run to one (superstrobe 50) and I tried 16, 14, 12, and finally 10. Once I tried the 10, I never looked back!
Now, this was a 120 volt model. A number 12 for 240 would probably be fine.

* = there is some voltage drop across the lamp, so it is not exactly a dead short.

 

[MikeJ]

I might give it a try when I finally see the new Elation LED strobe that is supposed to be brighter then an atomic, just for comparison.
It would really be just an academic experiment though, because I'm not buying 10ga Socapex.



EDIT: I only run the 208v model, the the difference might be less pronounced.

 

[Dionysus]

Mr @STEVETERRY would know for sure, but there are two common applications where a 20 amp circuit is run with #10. The first is length, and the second is the current de-rating that occurs as you increase the number of conductors in a given run. One would thing you could drop to #12 at the receptacl via wire nuts. I have often seen stranded THHN switched to solid at the receptacle box for the last two inches. The stranded cable makes for an easier pull, and the solid for a better connection on screw terminal receptacles.

Yes if the device can not take the up-sized wire you can downsize (usually with wire nuts) or change from stranded to solid or what-naught (or AL to CU). Done all of the above.

As per not up-sizing in residential i've had to do it many times, and actually code here has changed to make it so you have to do it even more often. So #12 is being used in residential far more often than it had. Then again all of the 15A devices are rated for #12awg which helps.

 

[ship]

10ga stranded for the run, wire nutted to solid wire for a better connection at the outlet... The less splices the better especially a wire nut splice in converting stranded to solid where possible I personally don't recommend. This weak splice that is going to be in the system as long as it's wired so as to make for an easier pull.

I love 10ga solid, after that if doing stranded I would prefer a crimp terminal into the outlet over a wire nut solid to stranded splice in making the connection. Just my opinion. I don't think going 10Ga unless a long run is needed for strobes but it won't hurt if you want to run it. Certainly won't have any voltage drop problems. Switching circuit breaker types might be a solution, or if old circuit breakers swapping them out could be a solution. (Circuit breakers do become "trippy" if they trip a lot.)

 

[macdiv]

Good day all , i think i will need an expert here in the Atomic 3k board .... it cams with a defective lamp , and some blown resistors , and 2NB60, BYG20J,T410600B,TLP3055 ,,,all replaced and still the piece is OOO , 5Vdc is there , TNY55 Circuit is working OK , when powering the fan spine for 2 second with a flashing LED then nothing happened , i test the lamp with a working one and its OK , thermos SW is OK too , i checked all the diodes and SMD resistors and they all are fine i really don't know what is going on with this piece

 

[macdiv]

Good day all , i think i will need an expert here in the Atomic 3k board .... it cams with a defective lamp , and some blown resistors , and 2NB60, BYG20J,T410600B,TLP3055 ,,,all replaced and still the piece is OOO , 5Vdc is there , TNY55 Circuit is working OK , when powering the fan spine for 2 second with a flashing LED then nothing happened , i test the lamp with a working one and its OK , thermos SW is OK too , i checked all the diodes and SMD resistors and they all are fine i really don't know what is going on with this piece

finally problem solved ,,,,, thanks for all those who helped me ,,,,hhhhhaaa

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Don't forget the social contract of getting help for free on the internet: your payment is to tell us how you solved the problem, so people searching later with the same problem get to take advantage.

 

[macdiv]

Don't forget the social contract of getting help for free on the internet: your payment is to tell us how you solved the problem, so people searching later with the same problem get to take advantage.

Thanks for the advice ,,, i almost forgot that there was a community viewing my problem cos i didn't view ANY sort of help ,,where as most of the time if you find this response you got a little push and that when even some one said (((( this is really a difficult issio or keep digging , or this is very strange problem )) but even those replay i didn't find ,,,,
Any way the problem where duo to a broken through holes in the line of the trigger transformer

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Oh. See I couldn't tell, cause you tailgated on someone else's thread and this was page 5. Sorry about that.

 

[derekleffew]

Oh. See I couldn't tell, cause you tailgated on someone else's thread and this was page 5.

Actually, @macdiv started a brand new, from scratch thread, but since the topic was similar to an existing thread, a moderator merged the two. Most users prefer all information pertaining to a particular topic be all in one place, thus thread-merging is done all the time (but not always, as threads/posts do slip by our "human" moderators).

With previous versions of forum software, one was able to tell from the post titles that posts/threads had been moved or merged. We're looking into reviving this feature, but currently have no timetable for implementation.

Sorry for the confusion, but glad that @macdiv's issue got resolved.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Ah. Yeah; that seems a loss. That said, I'm not that fond of /this particular merge/, though what part of that is because it wasn't flagged as such I can't say really objectively.

 

[Eurotronic]

Hi there everyone.
I' currently trying to repair 2 Atomic 3000 that my boss buy as faulty. Search around the web Brought me here.
Some previous guys tried to fixed the strobos, but he cant make them work. I want to do it properly.
Can some of you send me a link for the schematic please? I saw that JD put one on the thread, but the file is too small, i cant read anything.
In advance, thank you for the help.
David