Master of Fine Arts in Lighting Design
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chawalang
Well-Known Member
If you want to teach in a University then get an MFA if you do not then getting that MFA should not be a priority for you.
The MFA is not necessary for a career in lighting, I have colleagues and former professors who tell me that all the time.
Are you a current undergrad?
Is your reason for wanting to go to grad school due to feeling that you have an inadequate skill set?
When you say you want to be a "lighting tech" electrician/ lighting Designer for Disney what do you mean exactly? Do you want to work for imagining in the parks and cruise ships? Do you want to design Disney shows on Broadway?
When I was a baby stagehand straight out of undergrad I worked for the rat in Orlando for a couple years, so I could tell you all about that.
The MFA is not necessary for a career in lighting, I have colleagues and former professors who tell me that all the time.
Are you a current undergrad?
Is your reason for wanting to go to grad school due to feeling that you have an inadequate skill set?
When you say you want to be a "lighting tech" electrician/ lighting Designer for Disney what do you mean exactly? Do you want to work for imagining in the parks and cruise ships? Do you want to design Disney shows on Broadway?
When I was a baby stagehand straight out of undergrad I worked for the rat in Orlando for a couple years, so I could tell you all about that.
Thanks for getting back to me. now to answer your questions.
1. I am currently a junior in high school but I'm just looking ahead in what I should study in college.
2. No theirs not, I have been doing lighting for 3 years at my high school and my church which both have a pretty nice lighting system and personally I feel like I have a lot of skill right now, I just want to study lighting in college and didn't really know what I should go for.
3. Really anything if it's running a spotlight for Fantasmic, designing a World Of Color show, or Designing lighting for a Disney Broadway show within the parks.
1. I am currently a junior in high school but I'm just looking ahead in what I should study in college.
2. No theirs not, I have been doing lighting for 3 years at my high school and my church which both have a pretty nice lighting system and personally I feel like I have a lot of skill right now, I just want to study lighting in college and didn't really know what I should go for.
3. Really anything if it's running a spotlight for Fantasmic, designing a World Of Color show, or Designing lighting for a Disney Broadway show within the parks.
chawalang
Well-Known Member
Keep in mind this is my personal opinion and I will say for clarity sake I did go to college and have an undergrad in theatre, a BA to be specific, I did not go the BFA route.
Having been out of school for 8 years now and working professionally the whole time I have grown very disenchanted with undergrad theatre programs. In my opinion they do not prepare people for the real world when it comes to production. Its a lot of money and 4 or 5 years to dedicate and most people come out of that environment unprepared. I would recommend looking at the following as possible alternatives.
http://stagecraftinstitute.com
This is actually really well put together from what colleagues have told me. Less expensive than full sail and its a 4 month program and I have worked with people who teach there who work in the industry, the teachers know their stuff. It is all industry gear and standards they teach there.
http://www.fullsail.edu
The catch about full sail is that it doesn't have a good rep in the industry. I have worked with some good people out of their show pro and touring program but unfortunately it seems like the attitude of entitlement from a lot of their grads tarnishes everyones reputation. I'm sure there are many other people on this forum who could chime in about the pros and cons of full sail. You can get an associates in a year from there. The draw back is that its very expensive, the pros to it though are that you get your hands on industry standard gear and the teachers are good, I have met a few.
You may have picked up term I have thrown out a lot, industry standard. The thing that sucks about the situation that college theatre programs is exactly that. Most are not able to make sure you are literate on gear and standards. I have friends who teach in Universities and this is by no means their fault, the technology moves so fast in our industry that academic programs either don't have the money to purchase industry standard gear or the university itself may not realize what is needed to really prepare students.
If you do choose to go to a 4 years college I would recommend doing one of two things. you should not major in theatre, get a degree in business, education, electrical engineering etc. Eventually your body will give out and you won't be able to physically do this kind of work anymore, it will happen and you need a back up. Or if you really want to get that degree in theatre you need to double major in something else, like the majors I mentioned before.
Now please don't take this personally, you are a junior in HS, in no way shape or form do you have the skill set to go out and work professionally. Again I am not trying to be rude I am being real, I started working in my HS theatre when I was a freshman and by the time I was a junior I did not have an adequate skill set to go be a pro. Working as an entertainment electrician involves an array of skill set, within all that knowledge is skills to ensure you don't kill anyone. Hanging and focusing conventional lighting isn't even 1/4 of that skill set. You need to be literate in the use of 3 phase power and its safe use, electrical theory in general, basic rigging from the point of view of a fly system and arena rigging, I.T is important as lighting systems are all run through networks using various protocols from Streaming ACN ART Net and so on. You need to be literate in the maintenance and repair of moving fixtures and the proper use and application of LED fixtures. You need to understand the different application of lighting one would use for theatre, rock and roll, broadcast, dance, sporting events, opera, corporate trade shows. Leadership and management skills are essential as well with you only gaining that with time and age experience. You need to have a literate knowledge of fall arrest systems and OSHA guidelines and a willingness to follow them to the T. You also need to have the concepts down of industry standard consoles such as a Grand MA or a Hog.
There are many ways you can go about getting this knowledge and by no means will your start be glamourous. Look at various production shops in your area and see if you can start working as an overhear. You will start by shlepping cable but that is where everyone should start. Hound your I.A.T.S.E local and see if you can start getting on some calls, again you be pushing road cases but its a start. Look at production companies that do installs around town.
My personal opinion is that if you really want to get your hands dirty and start learning a lot try to get into corporate work. Doing corporate shows with a production house, nothing ever stays the same in a ballroom and you have to bring everything for the show, it requires critical thinking like crazy, next to touring it will test your wits. I know because i have done both.
As far as Disney you mentioned an array of different departments. Running a spotlight for Fantastic is falls under the job they call a stage tech. Being the LD for World of Color, those gigs are not a plenty, that falls under Imagineering. Once the show is installed its done, the shows don't get uninstaled every year for a new one. Those people do a lot of designing for events as well and really production management for various entertainment parts of the park. Yes there is creative in it but your not designing a Disney main stage show every week. There is no "Broadway" show within the parks per say, again more often then not creative overlooks the install of the show but there are a lot of outside entities that come in to do all of that stuff. The same way Broadway works, a group comes together, design the show then once it opens they move on to the next one.
My personal opinion, keep your mind open, Disney isn't the cornerstone of all entertainment yes they do a lot and there are things they do really really well but there is a whole world of industry out there. It was a good start once I finished college but let me put it this way, every gig I have taken since I left them, I make more money at.
So again just my opinion but there are many ways to get ahead in the business and a 4 year degree is not the only way to do it, it also may not be the best way. You can work your way up through the ranks to. You can get the production house gig, then the cruise ship job, tour gigs then maybe an Imagineering gig with Disney, everyone has a different path, there is no one correct way to do it.
Having been out of school for 8 years now and working professionally the whole time I have grown very disenchanted with undergrad theatre programs. In my opinion they do not prepare people for the real world when it comes to production. Its a lot of money and 4 or 5 years to dedicate and most people come out of that environment unprepared. I would recommend looking at the following as possible alternatives.
http://stagecraftinstitute.com
This is actually really well put together from what colleagues have told me. Less expensive than full sail and its a 4 month program and I have worked with people who teach there who work in the industry, the teachers know their stuff. It is all industry gear and standards they teach there.
http://www.fullsail.edu
The catch about full sail is that it doesn't have a good rep in the industry. I have worked with some good people out of their show pro and touring program but unfortunately it seems like the attitude of entitlement from a lot of their grads tarnishes everyones reputation. I'm sure there are many other people on this forum who could chime in about the pros and cons of full sail. You can get an associates in a year from there. The draw back is that its very expensive, the pros to it though are that you get your hands on industry standard gear and the teachers are good, I have met a few.
You may have picked up term I have thrown out a lot, industry standard. The thing that sucks about the situation that college theatre programs is exactly that. Most are not able to make sure you are literate on gear and standards. I have friends who teach in Universities and this is by no means their fault, the technology moves so fast in our industry that academic programs either don't have the money to purchase industry standard gear or the university itself may not realize what is needed to really prepare students.
If you do choose to go to a 4 years college I would recommend doing one of two things. you should not major in theatre, get a degree in business, education, electrical engineering etc. Eventually your body will give out and you won't be able to physically do this kind of work anymore, it will happen and you need a back up. Or if you really want to get that degree in theatre you need to double major in something else, like the majors I mentioned before.
Now please don't take this personally, you are a junior in HS, in no way shape or form do you have the skill set to go out and work professionally. Again I am not trying to be rude I am being real, I started working in my HS theatre when I was a freshman and by the time I was a junior I did not have an adequate skill set to go be a pro. Working as an entertainment electrician involves an array of skill set, within all that knowledge is skills to ensure you don't kill anyone. Hanging and focusing conventional lighting isn't even 1/4 of that skill set. You need to be literate in the use of 3 phase power and its safe use, electrical theory in general, basic rigging from the point of view of a fly system and arena rigging, I.T is important as lighting systems are all run through networks using various protocols from Streaming ACN ART Net and so on. You need to be literate in the maintenance and repair of moving fixtures and the proper use and application of LED fixtures. You need to understand the different application of lighting one would use for theatre, rock and roll, broadcast, dance, sporting events, opera, corporate trade shows. Leadership and management skills are essential as well with you only gaining that with time and age experience. You need to have a literate knowledge of fall arrest systems and OSHA guidelines and a willingness to follow them to the T. You also need to have the concepts down of industry standard consoles such as a Grand MA or a Hog.
There are many ways you can go about getting this knowledge and by no means will your start be glamourous. Look at various production shops in your area and see if you can start working as an overhear. You will start by shlepping cable but that is where everyone should start. Hound your I.A.T.S.E local and see if you can start getting on some calls, again you be pushing road cases but its a start. Look at production companies that do installs around town.
My personal opinion is that if you really want to get your hands dirty and start learning a lot try to get into corporate work. Doing corporate shows with a production house, nothing ever stays the same in a ballroom and you have to bring everything for the show, it requires critical thinking like crazy, next to touring it will test your wits. I know because i have done both.
As far as Disney you mentioned an array of different departments. Running a spotlight for Fantastic is falls under the job they call a stage tech. Being the LD for World of Color, those gigs are not a plenty, that falls under Imagineering. Once the show is installed its done, the shows don't get uninstaled every year for a new one. Those people do a lot of designing for events as well and really production management for various entertainment parts of the park. Yes there is creative in it but your not designing a Disney main stage show every week. There is no "Broadway" show within the parks per say, again more often then not creative overlooks the install of the show but there are a lot of outside entities that come in to do all of that stuff. The same way Broadway works, a group comes together, design the show then once it opens they move on to the next one.
My personal opinion, keep your mind open, Disney isn't the cornerstone of all entertainment yes they do a lot and there are things they do really really well but there is a whole world of industry out there. It was a good start once I finished college but let me put it this way, every gig I have taken since I left them, I make more money at.
So again just my opinion but there are many ways to get ahead in the business and a 4 year degree is not the only way to do it, it also may not be the best way. You can work your way up through the ranks to. You can get the production house gig, then the cruise ship job, tour gigs then maybe an Imagineering gig with Disney, everyone has a different path, there is no one correct way to do it.
It depends on the program. When I was an undergrad we saw that we wouldn't be ready, got together and made changes. We me with the head of the department and he agreed and we all got out of there pretty well set a few years later. I've been out for 4 years now and I graduated in 4 years and without any debt thanks to getting work study money for being shop staff. I still have more to learn but I definitely got out with enough knowledge to function and be a successful and in my field since day one.
As far as an MFA I've been up and down. I teach high school, I wouldn't mind teaching college. After going to USITT a few years ago I wanted to go for an MFA, but I've worked some more, done more freelance stuff and I've taught myself a lot and the school has given me professional development money to train me in other things. Now a days I don't see a need for the masters. I'd rather step back in responsibility and be just a carpenter in my next job rather than TD, LD, props, teacher, sound, and fight choreographer.
TLDR: wait till you get out of undergrad, work for a few years to get experience, see what jobs you get and after that, decide if you want to go back for a masters. Get that real world experience. Don't go from undergrad to masters, it works for some but you'll be almost 30 without any real world experience under your belt.
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For whatever it's worth to you, I highly recommend you find internships in your field. The college grads with internship experience can run circles around those who don't.
I'm not talking about getting a job with a community theatre where you push boxes around and hang lights. I'm talking about doing summer work with a theatre lighting manufacturer, production company, or theatrical lighting/sound/rigging systems installer or design consultant. You learn so much more in these niches of our industry that it'll make your undergrad classes seem like nothing more than busywork.
I'm not talking about getting a job with a community theatre where you push boxes around and hang lights. I'm talking about doing summer work with a theatre lighting manufacturer, production company, or theatrical lighting/sound/rigging systems installer or design consultant. You learn so much more in these niches of our industry that it'll make your undergrad classes seem like nothing more than busywork.
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
I went the back and MFA route and believe it has served me well and given me many opportunities I would not have had otherwise. That was however 35 to 40+ years ago and times have changed.
I'm a believer in the study of liberal arts and the undergraduate experience generally but not sure what I found is what you'd find today. I don't know how you acquire that experience and knowledge today, but it really contributes to lighting design and working collaboratively with other designers, directors, actors, and so on.
All that said, if you can afford to intern, work for low pay/no pay for experience, and generally get by for a few years, those experiences will open doors. I'd also suggest looking at the ETCP requirements as a good picture of skills required to work in the field.
Just to be clear, I think there is a wide difference between designer and technician, and I'm not sure you have quite grasped that, which is not unusual.
Keep asking questions here and elsewhere, and try to broaden your experiences by observing and working on as many different gigs as possible.
I'm a believer in the study of liberal arts and the undergraduate experience generally but not sure what I found is what you'd find today. I don't know how you acquire that experience and knowledge today, but it really contributes to lighting design and working collaboratively with other designers, directors, actors, and so on.
All that said, if you can afford to intern, work for low pay/no pay for experience, and generally get by for a few years, those experiences will open doors. I'd also suggest looking at the ETCP requirements as a good picture of skills required to work in the field.
Just to be clear, I think there is a wide difference between designer and technician, and I'm not sure you have quite grasped that, which is not unusual.
Keep asking questions here and elsewhere, and try to broaden your experiences by observing and working on as many different gigs as possible.
JChenault
Well-Known Member
There are two things that (IMHO) you need to make it as a a designer or technician in this business. First you have to know how to do the work. Secondly you need to have a wide network of folks who know you and your work and will hire you.
Now if you want to be a technician, you can probably do a lot of this on the job. There is a deaf to apprentice system that can train you in the craft. If you can pick up enough knowledge to get your foot in the door, either in a rental shop, or on an over hire list ( depending on where you are in the country ) and learn the trade on the job. If you know enough to coil cable, push boxes, etc, you can get that first job, build up your network and move up through the ranks. You are in a large cohort of folks who want someone to do the grunt work, and will be willing to train you in more complex tasks. Your network is based on the people you work with, IE the master electricians, etc who will be seeing your work, and can assess your competence and fit.
If you want to be a lighting designer, the apprentice system does not work very well. While you might get a job as an assistant, you need to be very practiced in your craft in order to have a shot at that job. There is no way to learn it on the job. You need a higher of level of expertise to get that first job. So where do you learn it? Either in a strong BFA program, or in a strong MFA program. You need to find a program where the professors work professionally and take their students out with them so they can learn and network. You also have to network with directors and producers, people who don't really understand lighting. You need to learn how to relate to them ( ie study art, theatre history, literature, etc ).
I do know of a couple of lighting designers who went the ME to LD route be working a regional theatre, but it is a difficult path.
To thr OP. It's early yet. If you are convinced that a life in the theatre is the only thing that will make you happy, take a year or two and get a job as a technician, then consider going to a good BFA school. If you are not sure ( and statistically it is very unlikely that at your age you could be sure ) and you have the financial resources, go to a good under graduate school and try out a number of possible career paths.
Now if you want to be a technician, you can probably do a lot of this on the job. There is a deaf to apprentice system that can train you in the craft. If you can pick up enough knowledge to get your foot in the door, either in a rental shop, or on an over hire list ( depending on where you are in the country ) and learn the trade on the job. If you know enough to coil cable, push boxes, etc, you can get that first job, build up your network and move up through the ranks. You are in a large cohort of folks who want someone to do the grunt work, and will be willing to train you in more complex tasks. Your network is based on the people you work with, IE the master electricians, etc who will be seeing your work, and can assess your competence and fit.
If you want to be a lighting designer, the apprentice system does not work very well. While you might get a job as an assistant, you need to be very practiced in your craft in order to have a shot at that job. There is no way to learn it on the job. You need a higher of level of expertise to get that first job. So where do you learn it? Either in a strong BFA program, or in a strong MFA program. You need to find a program where the professors work professionally and take their students out with them so they can learn and network. You also have to network with directors and producers, people who don't really understand lighting. You need to learn how to relate to them ( ie study art, theatre history, literature, etc ).
I do know of a couple of lighting designers who went the ME to LD route be working a regional theatre, but it is a difficult path.
To thr OP. It's early yet. If you are convinced that a life in the theatre is the only thing that will make you happy, take a year or two and get a job as a technician, then consider going to a good BFA school. If you are not sure ( and statistically it is very unlikely that at your age you could be sure ) and you have the financial resources, go to a good under graduate school and try out a number of possible career paths.
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