Mics for choir and/or stage plays

[hemismith]

I need to buy some equipment for my church. This will probably be the first of many posts, as I am essentially starting over from scratch. I didn't know about this forum until recently when searching for recommendations on boundary mics and was pretty excited to find it. The other forums I've been on aren't as geared towards this kind of stuff. Unfortunately my wife doesn't allot me much time on the computer, so I haven't had a chance to spend 40 hours searching the archives, but I have spent several hours. The answers might be there but I still need some help as we have some events coming up soon.

First item on the list is mics. I need to mic the choir and stage plays. (Wireless headworn mics are not in the budget.) I've used Shure MX202 hanging mics but didn't really like them, and hanging mics will be difficult. I would rather go with something easier to set up. I've had some success with boundary mics, and was planning on getting a couple for the stage or tables. (I was excited to discover the Bartletts via this forum.) But they probably won't pick up people that are either in the very front or very back of the stage. So I thought about a couple condensers on stands (recommended by another forum). I thought I could hang one or two in the back of the stage, but in front would be difficult. For the choir I was planning on the condensers on stands.

But I just saw a chart of some measurements in another forum. My understanding of boundary mics was that they have limited bass response unless place on a large hard surface. But in the chart the boundary and the Behringer measurement mic had similar response when placed on a stand a couple feet in the air, but with a huge notch at 300 Hz. (This makes sense as I believe you would get a notch when the height of the mic is half the wavelength. So putting something at 4 feet would lower the notch to 150 Hz (roughly).) But I need something as inconspicuous as possible. So I thought about just putting a boundary mic on the podium, or perhaps one on each side.

So what would you recommend for my mic arsenal, and in each of these situations? Budget is an issue, so the fewer the better.

Thanks very much.

 

[mixmaster]

I need to buy some equipment for my church. This will probably be the first of many posts, as I am essentially starting over from scratch. I didn't know about this forum until recently when searching for recommendations on boundary mics and was pretty excited to find it. The other forums I've been on aren't as geared towards this kind of stuff. Unfortunately my wife doesn't allot me much time on the computer, so I haven't had a chance to spend 40 hours searching the archives, but I have spent several hours. The answers might be there but I still need some help as we have some events coming up soon.

First item on the list is mics. I need to mic the choir and stage plays. (Wireless headworn mics are not in the budget.) I've used Shure MX202 hanging mics but didn't really like them, and hanging mics will be difficult. I would rather go with something easier to set up. I've had some success with boundary mics, and was planning on getting a couple for the stage or tables. (I was excited to discover the Bartletts via this forum.) But they probably won't pick up people that are either in the very front or very back of the stage. So I thought about a couple condensers on stands (recommended by another forum). I thought I could hang one or two in the back of the stage, but in front would be difficult. For the choir I was planning on the condensers on stands.

But I just saw a chart of some measurements in another forum. My understanding of boundary mics was that they have limited bass response unless place on a large hard surface. But in the chart the boundary and the Behringer measurement mic had similar response when placed on a stand a couple feet in the air, but with a huge notch at 300 Hz. (This makes sense as I believe you would get a notch when the height of the mic is half the wavelength. So putting something at 4 feet would lower the notch to 150 Hz (roughly).) But I need something as inconspicuous as possible. So I thought about just putting a boundary mic on the podium, or perhaps one on each side.

So what would you recommend for my mic arsenal, and in each of these situations? Budget is an issue, so the fewer the better.

Thanks very much.

For choir, my go-to mic is our MX202s. Properly deployed, they do a reasonable job of picking up the choir. Deployed too high, or too far away, and they don't sound good at all. That being said, this summer I helped out on a community theater gig that used an AudioTechnica version of that mic and was very impressed by the naturalness of the sound. Impressed enough that if I ever need more hanging mics, the AT mics will be pretty high on the short list.
I've tried the condenser on a stick thing in front of the choir, and found it to be barely acceptable. When micing a choir I want to use as few mics as possible which for a large choir or set means a high quality condenser with a wide pattern, and I haven't found one of those I like. The other option is to use multiple mics which, which raises concerns about interaction between mics, and my have aesthetic issues also. Our last choir concert was performed downstage of the Proscenium, on the pit cover, and so there was nothing to hang from. After trying my usual stand mounted suspects SM58 B87 SM81 and just not being satisfied, I taped a pair of MX202s to a boom stand, and angled them about 90 degrees apart. It not perfect, and still doesn't come close to properly deployed MX202s but I though captured the whole choir better than anything else I played with. My biggest problem was the complete and total lack of physical isolation from the stage floor meant that I heard every little footstep. Had to be real careful about when I had the mics on. Our boundary mics are PCC160s. I've been less than thrilled with their performance. If you've got performers that are capable or projecting well to the front of the stage, they seem to be adequate for the task of providing a little reinforcement. If your performers don't have the training or the desire to project their voice, no amount of large area mics (either hanging or floor mounted) is going to help and I've never been happy with the PCC's gain before feedback when cranked to max trying to capture that little voice in the upstage corner or whatever. Hanging mics are much easier to co-ordinate with the director or whomever handles the blocking. WRT the bass rolloff on a boundary mic, PCCs have a swtich that lets you roll off the bass or not. I find they sound better with the bass rolled off.

 

[hemismith]

Thanks very much for the reply. I have hung mics in front of the proscenium by stringing wire across the hall, but it's a bit of a pain. I assume they were using the AT U853, which I believe also comes with a stand adapter. They have a cheaper one; I'll have to do some research to see what the difference is. The ability to either hang or put on a stand would be ideal.

It wouldn't be possible to maintain the 3:1 rule and try to pick up people upstage from a mic at the front. This is just a difficult situation I guess and I'm going to have to tell them to project or they won't be heard. Of course, the sound guy always gets the blame though.