Mirror Ball Control

[PaulRiley]

Hi all!

I've got a question but first let's have a small amount of scenario setting.

I am at college (UK) and we're running a showcase in the P.A department in a couple of weeks. The studio we're using is an all-LED rig using primarily ETC ColorSource fixtures. For control we have a Zero88 FLX desk but I'm not a massive fan of that desk so I am going to use ETC Nomad running off my laptop for control as I prefer ETC Eos family desks as that is what I have used in the main.

I have created a magic sheet for quick access and also I am going to be using OSCRFR running off my tablet to allow me to be able to talk to the actors and create states as we're talking rather than having them yell at me from the stage or run up and down the staircase between the booth and the stage. I have patched all the fixtures that are included in the patch of the FLX however....

We have a mirror ball which works perfectly fine if you use the FLX but it doesn't work if you use Nomad. In the patch I have it set to Channel 36 (Address 152) with the fixture personality being the generic mirror ball personality already created in Eos.

I did a little research and we have Zero88 Chilli dimmer racks installed and the second universe on the FLX is relays however I can't imagine that those would have an effect on the control of the mirror ball.

Would the relays and the dimmer racks have an effect on the control of the mirror ball? Is this the correct personality to use? And how do you control a mirror ball using Eos?

Thanks for all your advice!

 

[Amiers]

Yes.

Relay is switched generally so off / on 0/100% so if you are going for speed control you might have to try something else. If you are looking for off/on then.

I would scrap the mirror ball personality and just fire the channel and it should work baring all your addresses are correct.

 

[PaulRiley]

So what you're saying is to unpatch the channel and leave it as a dimmer personality? Would setting different intensities affect the speed of the mirror ball?

 

[epimetheus]

What are the specs on the mirror ball motor? Is it DMX or dimmer controlled?

 

[Amiers]

So what you're saying is to unpatch the channel and leave it as a dimmer personality? Would setting different intensities affect the speed of the mirror ball?

Yes but if the dimmer module is in fact a relay it won’t work for speed control and you will need to swap it out or put it on a real dimmer.

 

[PaulRiley]

What are the specs on the mirror ball motor? Is it DMX or dimmer controlled?

I'm not sure off the top of my head, from what I can remember it's DMX controlled but I am in the studio on Thursday so I think I am able to check. (College is a little weird as we have a Genie scissor lift rather than any ladders so I can't check on my own so I'll have to ask the tech to check for me.)

 

[PaulRiley]

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Yes but if the dimmer module is in fact a relay it won’t work for speed control and you will need to swap it out or put it on a real dimmer.

Ah okay, I'll check that as well on Thursday. I think from what I remember about the Chilli racks is that they can change between relay and dimmer. If they can't, I'll pop it on a real dimmer.

 

[Van]

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Ah okay, I'll check that as well on Thursday. I think from what I remember about the Chilli racks is that they can change between relay and dimmer. If they can't, I'll pop it on a real dimmer.

FYI, MOST Mirror ball motors are 'Shaded-pole' clock work style motors. they do not respond well to being dimmed. If it's speed control that you are looking for your options are a purpose built, variable speed motor, or a single-speed motor that you have selected. I know I've seen 3, 5, and 7 RPM units before.
I once had to build my own prupose built mirror-ball motor, it's a pain. they have to have a clutch which allows the ball to loose momentum on it's own or it grinds up the gear box.

 

[PaulRiley]

Ohhhh okay. Speed control would be nice to have but I didn't realise that many motors don't like being dimmed - I thought they were designed to be dimmed as it worked fine with speed control if the FLX is used. If that's the case, I'll settle for on/off control for now and then I'll look further into speed control for the motor if that's something that can be done without having to either get a purpose built motor or build my own.

 

[kicknargel]

If it IS some kind of DMX controlled motor, then you may need a more specific personality for it. I think the manual for the motor is the place to start here. Or, can you see the patch / personality in use by the FLX console and replicate that?

 

[Amiers]

If it IS some kind of DMX controlled motor, then you may need a more specific personality for it. I think the manual for the motor is the place to start here. Or, can you see the patch / personality in use by the FLX console and replicate that?

Technically you don’t need a personality just have to patch the DMX address to the proper channel and bobs your uncle.

But yes the OP has been unclear if it’s DMX controlled or power. Although it seems to lean towards the latter.

From everything said it seems that there was a patching error from the start. The Zero88 was prolly prepatched for it.

You should try to use the Zero88 and get comfortable with it anyways it’s good to be versed in all varieties of consoles anyways.

 

[Les]

Just a little advice - whichever way you go with the mirror ball, I've had the best results by putting the motor in the cue before the actual effect. Example: Q99 includes motor rotation; Q100 adds the light. That way it's already up to speed when the effect is brought up.

I've run a motor off a dimmer at full. Experienced no issues, but YMMV. I don't think I'd treat an expensive motor that way. But it's always all or nothing. Any "dimming" can cause overheating, stalling, jerkiness, etc.

 

[PaulRiley]

"You should try to use the Zero88 and get comfortable with it anyways it’s good to be versed in all varieties of consoles anyways." - Amiers

I know that I should try to use the FLX more but it's the first time I've come across it (my previous school had a LeapFrog for all their shows along with about 10 conventional lanterns and that was it) and I feel slightly more comfortable using Nomad just for this show then when I've got some downtime between this show and the next one in March, I'm gonna have a play with it and see what I can do with it and get comfortable with it.

"But yes the OP has been unclear if it’s DMX controlled or power. Although it seems to lean towards the latter." - Amiers

I have a feeling that the mirror ball is power controlled rather than DMX contolled but as it's a college, people who don't have a massive understanding in tech theatre have made the decision to renovate the rig and things just get lost like manuals and manufacturer's names and then no-one knows whether it's DMX or power controlled and no-one wants to check because that's a hassle and a half as it involves checking class times and getting the genie in and whatnot.

" Or, can you see the patch / personality in use by the FLX console and replicate that?" - kicknagel

I will have a look and see how the FLX patches the mirror ball and see if there is something similar in ETC, thank you for the idea!

And Les, thank you for the tip regarding programming the mirror ball into cues - that was something that I'm sure would have had me stumped when it came to it!

Thanks guys again for all the advice you've given me - I'm still learning and seeing what I can do in the world of lighting. I'll let you know when/if I manage to get it working and how.

 

[Amiers]

Pretty simple to find out what controls it. Pull the cable from the patch bay and apply power to the circuit it’s plugged into. If it moves then it’s power controlled if it doesn’t then it’s DMX.

 

[PaulRiley]

Pretty simple to find out what controls it. Pull the cable from the patch bay and apply power to the circuit it’s plugged into. If it moves then it’s power controlled if it doesn’t then it’s DMX.

Ah cool! I'll do that then instead of asking around and crossing my fingers! Thank you!

 

[Stan Longhofer]

We have sometimes put the mirror ball on a sub master and then used the bump button to control the speed manually by giving it a bump for a few seconds, letting it rotate freely, then bumping it again when is needs a bit of “juice.”

 

[PaulRiley]

We have sometimes put the mirror ball on a sub master and then used the bump button to control the speed manually by giving it a bump for a few seconds, letting it rotate freely, then bumping it again when is needs a bit of “juice.”

Oh, that's a good idea that I'm gonna steal!

 

[PaulRiley]

I found out today that the motor is power controlled so would that make a difference to how it's patched in? I presume that I'd just patch it as a dimmer in Nomad and leave it - is that right?

 

[Amiers]

Yep that’s how you do it. Then just check the dimmer it’s in and if it’s a relay just set the personality of the dimmer in your patch to full at 1% so you don’t piss off the motor.