Mounting mover sideways

[avery]

I know this has been mentioned in the past. But I wanted to try to get as much info on it as possible.

My question is about mounting movers sideways to a vertical truss. I don't really plan on doing it anytime soon, but it's always been a question I've had. (I'm not talking about LED movers, but fixtures like Mac 250 or 500). Just to clearify. I'm not talking about mounting at an angle on an arch truss. But truly on it's side.

I've been told by a few people that it's a big no no due to the stress that it puts on the pan and tilt motors. But at the same time I've seen some of the very best LD's do it at lots of shows. I suppose it could have something to do with the fixture they are using (most of the time VL 3000 or higher) being of better build quality. Or the fact that it's not a permanent install.

Anyway. I'd like to get everyone's opinion on it.

Thanks

 

[Amishplumber]

It depends on the fixture. You've got the look in the manual for the exact fixture you're thinking about mounting. The only moving heads I've ever heard of not liking to be mounted sideways are some Elations.

 

[rochem]

I generally only work with bigger, more expensive fixtures, but I've never heard of this being a problem. I built a tour a few months ago that used PRG BAT truss for its sidelight ladders, and each ladder had two VL3500s hung from the pipe. The fixtures were hung down when the truss traveled, but when the trusses were hung as ladders, the fixtures were oriented at 90 degrees to gravity. I've also hung moving lights on circular truss that forms a large arc-shaped portal, so units on the top of the truss were hung downward, but units on the sides were hung gradually more angled. All of the Bad Boys in the U2 360 stages were also hung out off the truss, not oriented down with gravity.

 

[avery]

rochem,

I've seen the same from my experiences. I can understand the logic behind the stress mounting a fixture 90 degrees might cause on the motors. But we're also dealing with fixtures here that cost more than a lot of cars. So I've got to think this has been taking into consideration when designing the product. Also, with the stage designs and truss we're seeing now, there isn't always a horizontal downstage truss to hang from. I can't imagine the manufacturers are un-aware of this.

 

[derekleffew]

...I suppose it could have something to do with the fixture they are using ... being of better build quality. ...

This. You nailed it. Less-expensive moving heads will sometimes cheap out on the motors. RTFM. If the manufacturer says only upright or under-hung, obey them. That being said, I've never had an issue with fixtures from VL, Martin, HES. I HAVE heard of issues with lower-end fixtures from other manufacturers.

 

[TimMiller]

I have never had an issue with hanging movers sideways. If the manual says you can do it then do it. Half the time in theater you have no option but to mount sideways. If a motor is starting to go bad it may have issues but then it needs to be replaced anyways. As far as load stress on the units the pan bearings take the weight, they are way over built for a reason just the motor will have to work a little harder to hold the head straight but that's the advantage to stepper motors is the torque and holding power that they have for their small size

 

[len]

When in doubt, CHECK THE MANUAL. Granted, they don't fall into the "high dollar" category, but I know that some Elation fixtures specifically point out to NOT hang them like that. I think that Elation/GLP LED product can be (although I'm not sure, so RTFM!!!!!), but not all can. As for Martin, HES, etc., I doubt they recommend it. Now if the fixture in question is far out of warranty and the accountant has depreciated it down to $0, why not? Except, what if it falls and causes an injury? If you willfully went against the mfg. recommendation, your insurance company probably would not cover it. If I were an insurer, I sure wouldn't.

 

[porkchop]

My understanding is that it will strain the motors, but if you've got an expensive enough fixture that the manual OK's it, and you're doing a lighting design complicated enough to require it. Then you probably have the budget for a little more maintenance per fixture. Also HES Studio series lights seem to not mind it at all, although there's not a whole lot that bothers those fixtures to begin with.

 

[iLightTheStage]

When in doubt, CHECK THE MANUAL. Granted, they don't fall into the "high dollar" category, but I know that some Elation fixtures specifically point out to NOT hang them like that. I think that Elation/GLP LED product can be (although I'm not sure, so RTFM!!!!!), but not all can. As for Martin, HES, etc., I doubt they recommend it. Now if the fixture in question is far out of warranty and the accountant has depreciated it down to $0, why not? Except, what if it falls and causes an injury? If you willfully went against the mfg. recommendation, your insurance company probably would not cover it. If I were an insurer, I sure wouldn't.

On a specific example, one of which came up as a [-]argument[/-] discussion at work: the Elation/GLP "Impression" LED moving head says not to mount the unit at 90-degrees with the single-point clamp in comes with. It can however, be mounted as such, with their special two-point mount (which VER doesn't carry, despite carrying the units). As pointed out, always read the manual, it will be in there.

 

[shiben]

On a specific example, one of which came up as a [-]argument[/-] discussion at work: the Elation/GLP "Impression" LED moving head says not to mount the unit at 90-degrees with the single-point clamp in comes with. It can however, be mounted as such, with their special two-point mount (which VER doesn't carry, despite carrying the units). As pointed out, always read the manual, it will be in there.

Dont you want 2 clamps anyhow?

 

[len]

Dont you want 2 clamps anyhow?

I think the Impression (at least the original one) was designed to be only need 1 clamp if hung vertically http://www.elationlighting.com/pdffiles/impression_ v1.53-27.pdf if I'm reading the manual correctly. Two if side hung.

 

[shiben]

I think the Impression (at least the original one) was designed to be only need 1 clamp if hung vertically http://www.elationlighting.com/pdffiles/impression_ v1.53-27.pdf if I'm reading the manual correctly. Two if side hung.

Crank it down nice and tight, and only pan very slowly!

 

[len]

Crank it down nice and tight, and only pan very slowly!

Never used it, just going by the manual. So you're saying it develops a lot of torque?

 

[shiben]

Never used it, just going by the manual. So you're saying it develops a lot of torque?

Never used one, most gigs I am on tend to use VLs, CPs and Martins and the like. Im just saying that it would probably be fairly easy, over repeated use, to make this a problem...

 

[KevinNRP]

I doing a show where space is limited and I wanted to see if there are any adaptors or pipes which I would be able to mount 2 Elation 5rs to my Tomcat 10ft Box Truss. I'ld like the fixture to hang upside down with the truss going vertical.

 

[Pie4Weebl]

two cheese boros and a piece of 1.5" pipe! long enough for both lights to clear the truss.

 

[wiscolighting]

It depends on the fixture typically more expensive higher end fixtures hold up in those situations a little better... and even if the manufacturer says nothing against it, in the long run it will likely wear down the pan and tilt motors... which is why if you have seen some gear that comes off of tours that has been hung at 90 degree angles for months it is not always in the best shape. Additionally the motor movement may be a bit louder on some fixtures, you specifically mentioned Mac 250s which I have played with before in a similar capacity, 90 degree side hung, it works but not fantastically. As a side note the big tours that hang all of those fixtures on 90 degree angles have a lot of money to throw around often times... and probably will only use them for a few months so they don't really care what long term effect it has because not only will they not be using them for very long, they may also have a few cases of spares and a few traveling certified techs with them to fix broken ones... and that's why you get what you get when you buy retired tour gear.

 

[EBB]

I doing a show where space is limited and I wanted to see if there are any adaptors or pipes which I would be able to mount 2 Elation 5rs to my Tomcat 10ft Box Truss. I'ld like the fixture to hang upside down with the truss going vertical.

I am half certain I have seen those fixtures hung sideways before. And with it being a lighter fixture, I don't think it would be an issue. But like Pie4Weebl said, Pipe and two cheeseburgers would do the trick. If it were fixtures weighing more- such as Mac 2k or VL3500, I'd suggest adding a crossbrace pipe if using more than one on the same pipe. Assuming you are hanging them off the same side. But you shouldn't have that issue.

 

[KevinNRP]

Great thanks for the all the input.