Moving From M7CL to SQ-7

[TheaterEd]

Hi Everyone,

I run a high school performing arts center and am looking to move on to a more modern sound board with more/better functionality. I have been running sound boards for decades now, but I've never been in the position to actually pick out which one to buy.

We currently use a Yamaha M7CL-32 and I am looking at moving to the Allen and Heath SQ-7.

The A&H is within my budget. At that price point, is there any other boards I should be looking at? Is there any functionality that I will lose with this move?

What questions should I be asking?

 

[MRW Lights]

hmmm modern, with more/better... if that's not a subjective artist statement I don't know what is

but now to the questions... what is more better than what your M7 does? More channels? more flexibility? Things that card slots don't offer? Is it just an "older" m7 that is showing it's age? A&H is a solid choice, though a bit more of a learning curve than Yamaha's for a high school PAC...

though if I had my druthers I'd go back to a PM5D any day...

 

[JohnD]

These days, you should see if anyone actually has it in stock. How about other bits and bobs you might be wanting with it. Stage boxes, Dante card, etc. This might also apply to other brands you might be looking at.

 

[TheaterEd]

Definitely subjective and I understand that new does not equal better .

Things I want that I don't have.
More channels
The ability to customize fader layouts
An mobile app that functions properly
A program for my laptop that will allow me to build shows remotely (I can't get the Yamaha program to run)

The Yamaha is definitely beginning to show it's age. It's mobile app is pretty atrocious (needs to be restarted constantly), and I have yet to find a way to run the offline editor program, that is when I have been able to find it.

I'm planning to order 16 channel stage box to go with the A&H.

I am aware that there will be a bit of a wait for whatever I try to order, but If I get the ball rolling soon I may have it here before the next musical in Feb.....

 

[MRW Lights]

custom fader layouts should be easy to find wherever you land... if you really want go custom there's always the option of Digi... It'll also guaranteed job security at your PAC for anyone that can figure out how to quickly set it up and operate it.

your pains are definitely felt with the Stagemix app, though I will say it has "vastly improved" with the CL and QL's...

If I recall the M series editor was online only... and I'm not positive that any of the Yamaha's offer offline support... I could be mistaken there though as I have primarily switched to SSL, but a majority of what I do now is broadcast where SSL wins the day.

Sounds like you've got your list... aside from the artsy side of which sounds better and gives you the most flexibility for your space.... I think @JohnD is right. Go for what you can get and maybe who you can most easily get serviced if ever needed in the future.

 

[NickVon]

*NOTE* the SQ7 is still a 48channel console. as the M7CL is if I recall. and does not have as many mix's matrix's as the M7CL has. It's a great modern console for sure and at it's price point fits great sound in a great package with features. BUT. I forget what the M7 is but I thought it was also only 48 chans. either way the SQ is certainly not more. A more modern "upgrade" would actually probably be a QL series desk, as the M7CL was a "big boy" console, albeit many many years ago. It is still in a different class of capacity compared to the SQ. The A&H Avantis might actually be the upgrade you're looking for with a lower cost for entry then the Yamaha QL?

That Said I love my SQ6, which is my personal console.

I'm also been looking tat upgrades for my venues aging ls9. (it mostly still works, busted gain nob and bad preamp on input 15, but still works fine for the space so i'm having a hard time even justifying making the request to the powers that be to spend 14k on a QL, or....... more for a CL

 

[JohnD]

There is a new thread at PSW which addresses one thing you might be wondering about with the SQ stage boxes. The older ones which are also for the QU series have a 48khz sample rate, the newer ones have a 96khz sample rate.

Stage box for AH SQ

Stage box for AH SQ

forums.prosoundweb.com

 

[themuzicman]

If I recall the M series editor was online only... and I'm not positive that any of the Yamaha's offer offline support... I could be mistaken there though as I have primarily switched to SSL, but a majority of what I do now is broadcast where SSL wins the day.

Here's the M7CL Offline Editor - Yamaha has offered offline editing since the 02R96 released in 2002!

 

[MRW Lights]

Here's the M7CL Offline Editor - Yamaha has offered offline editing since the 02R96 released in 2002!

It does work offline! Surely I must have used it offline.... maybe I'm jaded by my broadcast boards that don't have editing software at all so I subconsciously pretend no one does... in the great wise word of @RonHebbard Toodleoo!

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Companions to the SQ7 are the M/X32 and the SI Impact, from what I can see.

The SQ series do not have a dedicated Cue Clear button, so subtract one softkey or be prepared to go insane.

I quite like the orthogonal UI of the SI Impact (from reading the manuals for all 3 a couple years ago), but I have heard the Soundcraft's audio isn't quite as good as the others; can't testify to that.

Do you need to be rider-friendly? These days, I think that points you to the X/M32's.

 

[macsound]

Inputs and outputs are what you've gotta look out for.
The upside is SQ Aux sends counts the same for stereo or mono, so you can have 12 stereo auxs which makes your maximum number not waste away so quickly.

My only current gripe about the SQ is the custom layers layout on the console aren't reflected on the App. Unless I'm doing something wrong, the app shows inputs in order 1-48.

 

[Dionysus]

Inputs and outputs are what you've gotta look out for.
The upside is SQ Aux sends counts the same for stereo or mono, so you can have 12 stereo auxs which makes your maximum number not waste away so quickly.

My only current gripe about the SQ is the custom layers layout on the console aren't reflected on the App. Unless I'm doing something wrong, the app shows inputs in order 1-48.

App has independent layers... odd but it works.

I love the SQ and depending on your use case the SQ may indeed tick all of your boxes. Would need to know more about your system and uses. I personally like the SQ WAY better than the X32.
As mentioned the M7CL was a "big boy" console, but to todays standards its not really.

My advice is to look at your needs and compare that to the specs of the SQ series. There are a few things it won't do, and you'd have to go for something pricier to get certain features, but anything anywhere near the same price point of SQ won't do those things anyways.
One of the things on SQ I've seen some people complain about is the lack of ability to fade when recalling scenes, but the SQ just wasn't built to do it. You'd need advantis or dLive.

Note that the dante stageboxes are great if you want to go that route.

 

[Jammer]

One issue on the SQ is how it handles DCA follow. Example, Scene X - actor on DCA 1, advance to Scene Y same actor still on DCA 1, but the DCA fader will drop to infinity and has to be pushed up again, so you can't transition a scene while the actor is speaking. On the QL and I'm assuming it's the same on the M7CL, if the DCA is assigned to the same channel in the next scene it will keep the level so if the conditions are right you can do a seamless transition during dialogue. There are work arounds, but it is a really nice feature that allows some flexibility of when to make scene changes.

 

[themuzicman]

One issue on the SQ is how it handles DCA follow. Example, Scene X - actor on DCA 1, advance to Scene Y same actor still on DCA 1, but the DCA fader will drop to infinity and has to be pushed up again, so you can't transition a scene while the actor is speaking. On the QL and I'm assuming it's the same on the M7CL, if the DCA is assigned to the same channel in the next scene it will keep the level so if the conditions are right you can do a seamless transition during dialogue. There are work arounds, but it is a really nice feature that allows some flexibility of when to make scene changes.

I've never used the SQ-7, but this seemed too awful to be true of a modern digital audio console so I downloaded SQ Mixpad app for Windows. It took a few minutes, but it's rather easy to make sure your DCA faders don't bop around when you don't want them to - in the SCENES page click the RECALL FILTER button, navigate to OTHER and BLOCK the DCA FADER function. You have to do this per-scene, but it will ensure that your DCA Fader positions are recall safe.

The M7 and QL will in fact exhibit the same behavior as the SQ unless you purposefully include the DCA Faders in Recall Safe Paramters of their respective consoles. The upside of the QL/CL/M7 is that you can globally enable this feature once, unlike the SQ which apparently you have to enable scene-by-scene.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

I've never used the SQ-7, but this seemed too awful to be true of a modern digital audio console so I downloaded SQ Mixpad app for Windows. It took a few minutes, but it's rather easy to make sure your DCA faders don't bop around when you don't want them to - in the SCENES page click the RECALL FILTER button, navigate to OTHER and BLOCK the DCA FADER function. You have to do this per-scene, but it will ensure that your DCA Fader positions are recall safe.

The M7 and QL will in fact exhibit the same behavior as the SQ unless you purposefully include the DCA Faders in Recall Safe Paramters of their respective consoles. The upside of the QL/CL/M7 is that you can globally enable this feature once, unlike the SQ which apparently you have to enable scene-by-scene.

I would expect that per-Scene isn't enough; you would want to be able to safe per-DCA -- I *want* the band to go out, just not the leads.

 

[themuzicman]

I would expect that per-Scene isn't enough; you would want to be able to safe per-DCA -- I *want* the band to go out, just not the leads.

It's all DCA's in the selected scene, I see no safe-per-DCA global setting. I don't think I've ever done variable recall safe across DCA's (some safe, some not) so the SQ-7 implementation, while a burden on programming, does work for me even if it's not ideal.

I guess if you want the band to go out and not the leads with an SQ-7 you'd have two options: 1. Mix it that way or 2. Un-assign from DCA + mute the channel on the GO.

 

[TimMc]

It's all DCA's in the selected scene, I see no safe-per-DCA global setting. I don't think I've ever done variable recall safe across DCA's (some safe, some not) so the SQ-7 implementation, while a burden on programming, does work for me even if it's not ideal.

I guess if you want the band to go out and not the leads with an SQ-7 you'd have two options: 1. Mix it that way or 2. Un-assign from DCA + mute the channel on the GO.

Or make it 2 separate cues, with only the band not recall-safed so only the band DCA is affected.