Les
Well-Known Member
Yes, Wybron either has or had such a system called the AutoPilot. Pretty sure the functionality vs cost is the reason it's not more popular.
http://www.premier-lighting.com/sales/autopilot.html
Moving Light as Follow Spot
- Thread starterjgrimes
- Start date
Yes, Wybron either has or had such a system called the AutoPilot. Pretty sure the functionality vs cost is the reason it's not more popular.
http://www.premier-lighting.com/sales/autopilot.html
If I were looking at a pan across the stage to follow spot, it might be easier to set up a bunch of static cues that semi-overlap. Depending on a number of factors, maybe 4 - 8 of them. Play around with the fade times, then just call the cues as needed, and they spots will move to the new spot. Tracking is really tricky, especially if your perspective is different than where the fixtures are.
It's too late to edit my post, but what I meant was using moving lights as a follow spot and moving them from a third location is especially challenging.
And one other thought, I believe some musician/band used movers with the pan/tilt motors disabled as follow spots. They had operators for them, IIRC.
And one other thought, I believe some musician/band used movers with the pan/tilt motors disabled as follow spots. They had operators for them, IIRC.
Erik456
Member
This is clearly a thought that manufacturers have realized is still popular. Utilize the features of a moving light (color, template, iris, ect..) while leaving the movement up to the operator. Might not be the posters ideal setup since it appears he is trying to eliminate operators, but still an interesting idea.
PRG has recently released a little device for their Bad Boy series of lights that gives the operator tons of control: http://www.prg.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/ds_pp_BadBoy-FollowSpot_draft1.pdf
VL has a spot handle for their new VL3015 Spot series, as well as a software disable of P/T (yay for no more disconnecting P/T cable harness!)
http://www.vari-lite.com/clientuploads/Followspot_Handle_Graphic.jpg
PRG has recently released a little device for their Bad Boy series of lights that gives the operator tons of control: http://www.prg.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/ds_pp_BadBoy-FollowSpot_draft1.pdf
VL has a spot handle for their new VL3015 Spot series, as well as a software disable of P/T (yay for no more disconnecting P/T cable harness!)
http://www.vari-lite.com/clientuploads/Followspot_Handle_Graphic.jpg
Is there anything more "remote" for this kind of stuff? A joystick controller that can inject its own pan/tilt data into the DMX stream for some given light, for example?
Definitely. Ages ago, I had a couple PanCan mirrors (http://www.pslx.co.uk/Pancan.htm except mine had joystick controllers) that I used as remote control spots. They were a real challenge, especially when I was trying to run the lightboard at the same time!
Hrvoje
Member
Yes there are automated systems where actor wears the transmitter:
http://www.cast-soft.com/blacktrax
You have one transmitter and several receivers. The systems have their advantages and disadvantages.
I wanted to make senseless system, where actor does not have to wear sensors. And that system is manually operated.
System does not use sensors and follow spot operator is not “mounted” on the truss, but he/she is sitting behind the stage.
http://www.cast-soft.com/blacktrax
You have one transmitter and several receivers. The systems have their advantages and disadvantages.
I wanted to make senseless system, where actor does not have to wear sensors. And that system is manually operated.
System does not use sensors and follow spot operator is not “mounted” on the truss, but he/she is sitting behind the stage.
Hrvoje
Member
Since the moving light is pointing where mouse pointer is pointing, I have ordered
http://www.apem.com/USB-Desktop-Control-Products-v9-p-66.html#3
To see how it feels to control moving light with industrial joystick.
It takes 3 weeks to deliver ???
http://www.apem.com/USB-Desktop-Control-Products-v9-p-66.html#3
To see how it feels to control moving light with industrial joystick.
It takes 3 weeks to deliver ???
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
Do report. Maybe even post a video. I'm interested in how it works. Thanks!
Hrvoje
Member
Finally, knock on the door!
Well, from my experience with joystick I would not recommend controlling a moving light with joystick. There are number of reasons for that.
First of all, most joysticks have a center spring. You release it, and it goes to center. So it makes no sense if you are following a singer and singer stops to hold the joystick in that position. So you need to program the driver for joystick to handle this case. But if you are following a dancer, he is moving to the left and to the right. Then you need to go over the center for right and over the center for the left. That is not a joy.
Second, joystick without spring is very hard to find.
I had written some programs for joystick that I have, and then, it displayed a steps during movement and to eliminate that steps, additional programming is required…. That will control only this joystick…. And…..
To summer all up,
Now I understand why computer games (especially point and shut games) are not using joysticks.
What we have found is that small size mouse and Apple Magic Trackpad are best tool for to follow the performer with moving light.
Best regards,
Hrvoje
Well, from my experience with joystick I would not recommend controlling a moving light with joystick. There are number of reasons for that.
First of all, most joysticks have a center spring. You release it, and it goes to center. So it makes no sense if you are following a singer and singer stops to hold the joystick in that position. So you need to program the driver for joystick to handle this case. But if you are following a dancer, he is moving to the left and to the right. Then you need to go over the center for right and over the center for the left. That is not a joy.
Second, joystick without spring is very hard to find.
I had written some programs for joystick that I have, and then, it displayed a steps during movement and to eliminate that steps, additional programming is required…. That will control only this joystick…. And…..
To summer all up,
Now I understand why computer games (especially point and shut games) are not using joysticks.
What we have found is that small size mouse and Apple Magic Trackpad are best tool for to follow the performer with moving light.
Best regards,
Hrvoje
Many joysticks can have the springs removed; however, they might not hold their position well when released (perhaps slowly falling towards the extreeme instead of quickly centering).
One could also consider a track pad or track ball. I think it would depend on the person, the rest of the desk, the location of the person in relation to the fixtiure(s), etc. My brother-in-law swears by those little eraser looking joysticks that some Dell notebooks (like the one I'm using now) had.
Hrvoje
Member
Trackpad works like a dream, trackball is more difficult and requires some time to get the grip on it.
Personally I use Apple Magic TrackPad and a mouse simultaneously. I have win7 laptop with usb mouse and Bluetooth connection to trackpad. During the show I use mouse or a pad.
Remove the spring on joystick…....?
Personally I use Apple Magic TrackPad and a mouse simultaneously. I have win7 laptop with usb mouse and Bluetooth connection to trackpad. During the show I use mouse or a pad.
Remove the spring on joystick…....?
Max Warasila
Member
Really, a joystick is mean to operate either in relative position from center or in relative acceleration from zero. I am far more fond of the latter of this solution.
Judge
Active Member
I remember that as well - at the time it seemed very advanced. I think it got used on a Rush tour and the unions were not at all happy about it and only agreed to the devices being deployed as long as one of the union FS ops stood next to it.
So these days you would think a new a better version would have turned up - how hard can it be?
edit - found it - it was the Wybron Autopilot
Out of production now but I have found a new system that does a similar thing called Zactrac - Youtube clip about it here
Also there is an old thread about this on CB where the difficulties are talked about
So these days you would think a new a better version would have turned up - how hard can it be?
edit - found it - it was the Wybron Autopilot
Out of production now but I have found a new system that does a similar thing called Zactrac - Youtube clip about it here
Also there is an old thread about this on CB where the difficulties are talked about
Last edited:
Hrvoje
Member
As I can see there are two main approaches to this topic:
One is Automated Follow spot, and other one is remotely controlled moving light used as followspot.
In my opinion, remotely controlled moving light is a way to go. I think that has more advantages than automated followspot simply because it is a system controlled by the human hand and it is a simple system. Systems in witch operator and computer are working together are currently being developed in different applications. For example; http://cahnrs.wsu.edu/news-release/2013/08/28/human-and-robot-team-up-for-high-tech-fruit-harvest/ . Here we have operator pointing what apple will be picked. I think that humans must do what they do b est and machinery is just a tool for them. Why clime on a stars all day to pick apples when you can point to computer where is apple and let him do the work. Why hang in FOH when you can sit behind the stage and do the same work?
This is a text describing jet another approach http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/hickmanbrady/tdt_2015winter/#/30 that is also starting to get complicated…
Anyway, only the time will show what system will users chose to use.
One is Automated Follow spot, and other one is remotely controlled moving light used as followspot.
In my opinion, remotely controlled moving light is a way to go. I think that has more advantages than automated followspot simply because it is a system controlled by the human hand and it is a simple system. Systems in witch operator and computer are working together are currently being developed in different applications. For example; http://cahnrs.wsu.edu/news-release/2013/08/28/human-and-robot-team-up-for-high-tech-fruit-harvest/ . Here we have operator pointing what apple will be picked. I think that humans must do what they do b est and machinery is just a tool for them. Why clime on a stars all day to pick apples when you can point to computer where is apple and let him do the work. Why hang in FOH when you can sit behind the stage and do the same work?
This is a text describing jet another approach http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/hickmanbrady/tdt_2015winter/#/30 that is also starting to get complicated…
Anyway, only the time will show what system will users chose to use.
Jay Ashworth
Well-Known Member
Max nails it above: you wouldn't want to set a joystick up to run a moving light as a follow spot by coupling the joystick position directly to the pan and tilt all of the fixture.
You would want to leave the springs on and have the joystick control the velocity at which the neutral pan and tilt position are changed, if you understand what I mean.
First derivative rather than direct.
You would want to leave the springs on and have the joystick control the velocity at which the neutral pan and tilt position are changed, if you understand what I mean.
First derivative rather than direct.
Max Warasila
Member
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