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moving light lamp question

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by gotnoblue, Mar 12, 2009.

  1. gotnoblue

    gotnoblue Member

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    i recently found a box in my basement with 4 hmi 1200 w/gs in it. can these be used in a mac 2k?

    a hmi 1200 w/s is specified - are the 2 interchangeable?

    thanx.
    ed
     
  2. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Nope. For all intensive purposes the Mac 2K lamp formerly called the HMI 1200w/S is now called the HMI 1200w/D7/60 and by way of the origional name it refers to a shortened version of for all intensive purposes the HMI 1200w/GS. In other words, the lamp length on the Mac 2k is much shorter and it won't fit.

    The HMI 1200w/GS is a very decent followspot lamp for instance used on a Lycian 1271 followspot.
     
    gotnoblue and (deleted member) like this.
  3. gotnoblue

    gotnoblue Member

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    thank you for the detailed response.

    very helpful.
     
  4. DaMenaCe

    DaMenaCe Member

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    a quick search before starting a new thread is always a good idea lol.


    So other then, the fitting issue its possible to use the Regular MSD lamp for a fixtures originally fitted with HMI lamp??
     
  5. DaMenaCe

    DaMenaCe Member

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    HMI 575 vs MSD 575??

    hey Guys,

    So, i did a quick search on google but, sadly nothing too accurate or informational showed up. well, more like i am still not too sure about some of my questions so its not googles fault. i did a quick search here and i got SOME good information but, it wasn't too clear or wasn't answering my exact question again, so i decided to start a new thread.

    if any of you guys can explain/ answer in most simple terms:

    1. What is the basic difference between the HMI and MSD other then the color temperature?

    2. Are they interchangeable? For instance, would i be able to replace an existing HMI 575 lamp in "x brand" moving head fixture with and Philips MSD from my Design Spots 575?? If so, How would i go about doing that ?

    3. Should i change the HMI to MSD ? is there any particular advantages or reasons why one

    Thanks mainly it for now, any help is appreciated and i thank for in advance. :)
     
  6. Ric

    Ric Active Member

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    Re: HMI 575 vs MSD 575??

    Hi,
    a Quick google of the Design Spot 575e shows; Fuse: 10A 250V Electronic Ballast, Lamp: Philips MSR 575/2 SADE, Lamp life: 575W, 7500°K, 1000 HRS
    (MSD is a different, colour temp, lamp with longer life, but still works)
    Without knowing what 'xbrand moving head' using a HMI lamp is, it's really hard to say whether this MSD/MSR lamp would work in it.

    The issues you'd have to iron out if trying to use a different lamp in a moving head would probably far out weigh the costs of a lamp, and possibly the fixture!
    Some of the things to work out would be:
    Lamp base fitting; you'd need to make the lamp fit & be secure
    Lamp size; does it fit in the current space provided, is it too long or too short & would it focus correctly.
    Lamp temperature; is it much hotter than the current lamp and if so will the extra heat cause issues with lenses, light path, moving elements (douser/shutter, gobos etc.)
    Voltage/Power supply; can the current power supply drive the different lamp

    FYI, there's a great post on the Blue Room about different lamp types! link

    Good luck !

    Ric

    (since I wrote my reply one of the updated posts has disappeared!)
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2012
  7. Ric

    Ric Active Member

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  8. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Re: HMI 575 vs MSD 575??

    Perhaps in linking the two posts in general concepts for general idas.

    "Some of the things to work out would be:
    Lamp base fitting; you'd need to make the lamp fit & be secure
    Lamp size; does it fit in the current space provided, is it too long or too short & would it focus correctly.
    Lamp temperature; is it much hotter than the current lamp and if so will the extra heat cause issues with lenses, light path, moving elements (douser/shutter, gobos etc.)
    Voltage/Power supply; can the current power supply drive the different lamp
    FYI, there's a great post on the Blue Room about different lamp types! link
    Good luck !:"

    Lamp base secure, are we talking about modifying the fixture for a different lamp? That would be a bad thing amongst issues arc gap.
    HMI (or HTI), HMD, MSR and MSD lamps while not ANSI coded for similarity are normally made to between brands fit into the same fixtures in being competive. They compete with each other for that when an apples to apples question. At times for certain lamps, there is no similarity due say to fill pressures, but in these above cases - there is no real difference between products overall. The HSR verses MSD question is apples and oranges as would be a HSD verses MSR question. Normally what the lamp is doing MSR/MSD or HSR/HSD won't effect the fixture. Also, both versions are normally interchangable for voltage etc. issues. Glad to see Blue room is still out there.

    Getting into specifics, there is no such thing as a HMI 575. While some really old pamphlets had me taking notes on it as a G-22 based lamp, it was only pamphlets. Assuming the HMI 575 above is in question comperable to a MSD 575,
    MSD 575 Philips #27479-5 CL, HP. SE. MH. HID., 575w/95v T-30mm 8mm arc gap LCL 65mm GY 9.5 75 CRI (Universal Burn Pos.) 207v Min. 5,900°K 45,000 Lum 2,000hr
    The similar product from Osram would be the:
    HSD 575w/72 4ARXS Osram #54129 CL, SE. MH. HID. Non-HR 575w/88v T-30mm 7mm arc gap LCL 65mm GX 9.5 Any Burn Pos. (CRI 85) 7,200°K 45,000 Lum 3,000hr

    Have not checked the philips website in the past two years for this lamp, might be the same.

    Moot point, you have a "Design Spot 575" but left out a lot of important info Phillips "MSR 575/2 SADE" These are not ANSI coded lamps so you really do have to not simplify what you want info on. MSR Gold™ 575 SA/2 DE is the proper description MSR Gold

    7.5K in color temp, 39,000 Lumens initial, 750 hour.

    Perspective MSD 575 dual ended version of the lamp is not listed on the Philips website but could exist. Can check further with my contacts but doubt there is a say MSD 575SA/2DE, but possible.
    Assuming that it is a MSR 575SA/2DE lamp, I'm out of date in my notes for such lamps but I am sure GE, Philips and Osram are well competive in the same versions of this lamp at this point. That is the concept in making the same lamps to compete with, they are mostly the same, just about price and end results overall for quality.

    Hope it helps, I can if wanted look further into this issue but think mostly solved.
     
  9. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Re: HMI 575 vs MSD 575??

    ??? I'm pretty certain the Altman Satellite, as well as countless film/TV fixtures (Arri D5, De Sisti Remington, et al) would disagree with that statement.
     
  10. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Re: HMI 575 vs MSD 575??

    My notes on the actual HMI 575 lamp as follows:
    HMI 575 Osram (?Disc.) CL, SE. MH., Hot Restrike 575w

    One cannot see the table but a lot of info not provided.
    HMI 575w/SE Osram #54063
    HMI 575w/SEL XS Osram #54063
    HMI 575w/SEL Osram #54063
    HMI 575w/60/P47 Osram
    HMI 575w/GS Osram #54064
    HMI 575w/DXS Osram #54313

    Is at least what I have in notes for existing or having existed (work copy of notes more up to date) - could have been some before or later from last time I sat down with update. Point being after the HMI 575, there is more info that is important to list. Anyone want a ETC lamp to put in their S-4 Leko? Same concept.

    If I'm to send a HMI 575 to you, would you like to pick which one or should I?

    Also, sorry for the side line in postings, no a 1200w GS lamp is for say a Lycian #1271 follow spot and won't fit inside a mover properly or do the job sufficiently.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  11. DELO72

    DELO72 Well-Known Member

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    Re: HMI 575 vs MSD 575??

    here's the difference:
    (nuts... the chart isn't showing/aligning well. Basically the HMI 1200W/GS became the HMI 1200W/DXS. Larger base (SFc15-5 vs. SFc10-4), Larger arc gap, longer lamp.)
    The HMI 1200W/S became the SHARXS HTI 1200W/D7/60.

    Ordering Abbreviation Product Number Watts (W) Volts (V) Current (A) CRI Lumens (lm) Color Temp (K) Length max (mm) Diameter d (mm) Electrode Gap-cold (mm) Avg Rated Life (hrs) Base
    HMI 1200W/DXS 55139 1200 100 13.8 >90 110000 6000 220 27 10 1000 SFc15.5

    HTI 1200W/D7/60 SHARXS 54268 1200 100 12.7/13.8 >90 110000 6000 136 21 7 750 SFc10-4

    I would always consult the MFN about what lamps are approved or specified in their fixtures. Some lamps may seem the same in spec, but have a slightly different operating parameter and void the warranty.

    I'll throw out an example-- The HMI 575W/SEL is a single-end lamp we make that is almost identical to the MSR 575/HR and the CSR 575/HR. Does that mean you can use it in the VL1000A? No. Our lamp has a higher ignition requirement as it was built with the film (hot-restrike fixtures) industry in mind. The MSR and CSR version have components that allow those lamps to ignite in fixtures providing lower ignition voltage at strike of the lamp. (The VL1000A for instance was not designed as a Hot-retrike moving head, so has a low kV ignitor). As a result the HMI 575W/SEL will not ignite much of the time in that fixture. On paper, the lamps all look similar with a similar size/base/spec/CCT/Lumens, etc.
     

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