Automated Fixtures Moving lights advice

[AdamC]

I need advice for upgrading the lighting in my 250 capacity venue. It's a black box space in an arts non-profit, and we do lots of music shows, film screenings, burlesque, variety, and talks/rentals of various kinds. Some dance performances, some drama, but not very often. For most shows we have very limited time to focus or write cues, so we're generally busking, running lights on the fly with channel and submaster faders on our Express 24/48. Often we have one tech running sound, lights and projections for a show.

We currently have a lot of conventionals, mounted on a pipe grid that covers the ceiling of the space. The space is not so large (40'x45') and our normal stage is only 16'x12'x24" with the pipe grid at 13'8". We have mostly 575w Source4s and Altman 65 Fresnels, with 6 PAR64s and 4 Chauvet COLORado LED strips recently added.

I'd like to add some moving lights and upgrade our console soon. The new console will likely be an ETC Element, since it should be easy to learn (coming from an Express) and allow for better control of our LEDs along with new moving lights, while still having faders for busking with the conventionals. I think some inexpensive moving lights would be a good addition, since we could use them to add excitement for higher-energy music/DJ/burlesque shows and for more subtle occasional effects in the dance theater style shows we do. Also I'm hoping they could also provide some movable specials for certain shows, so we don't always have to drag out a ladder and move audience chairs to focus specials for each show.

My question is, what moving lights would work best for this application? They would need to be pretty cheap, yet fairly reliable, but I don't think they'd need to be very bright. We don't normally run our conventionals intensity up very high unless they have a dark gel.

Would 4 LED moving head spots seems a reasonable choice? Maybe Chauvet or Elation? Our budget is somewhat flexible but if I can keep it to around $5000-7000 for 4 moving lights I'd have a better chance of getting it approved. I know that's low but we don't need the very best - we're just looking to start moving into more modern lighting.

Thanks very much for any help on this!

 

[Thetechmanmac]

Chauvet rogue series may fit your needs well (particularly the R1 spots). 4 of those would run you just under 5K. I would first look into upgrading your console first before getting an movers (assuming you aren't getting console and movers at the same time). You would have a hard time running movers off an express.

 

[AdamC]

Yeah, the console upgrade will happen before or at the same time as adding the movers, since running them with the Express would be pretty annoying. The Chauvet Rogue series looks good, and the Chauvet Intimidator Spot 455Z also seems like it would be a decent choice.

 

[Thetechmanmac]

So is your budget of 4-5K including or excluding the element?

 

[sk8rsdad]

With the short throw distances pay attention to the beam angle. The Rogue has a 16.5 degree beam angle which would produce about a 3' circle when pointed down, 9' across the full length of the room. You may need to look at something with a 40+ degree beam angle to get any amount of versatility out of them. That will greatly limit your choices and likely push it out of your budget.

 

[AdamC]

Around $5k for just the movers. The console upgrade will be a separate budget item.

 

[AdamC]

With the short throw distances pay attention to the beam angle. The Rogue has a 16.5 degree beam angle which would produce about a 3' circle when pointed down, 9' across the full length of the room. You may need to look at something with a 40+ degree beam angle to get any amount of versatility out of them. That will greatly limit your choices and likely push it out of your budget.

Yeah, that's a good point, and partly why I'm hoping for some advice from everyone here. The Chauvet Intimidator Spot 455Z has 13* to 28* zoom, which isn't nearly as wide as I'd like, but might be workable.

 

[petercav17]

How about wash fixtures? Some models (Like the MAC 250 Wash) have an extra wide lens that goes out to ~60* which would be great at short throw distances. Even though there is no Iris, most wash fixtures have a diffusion ability, so you could still dial in the perfect size. Granted, no gobos or tight beams, but you could pick up a few small used wash fixtures for cheap.

 

[TDN]

What are you looking to use the moving lights for? Color changing? Specials you can quickly refocus?

 

[BillESC]

^^^ Same question, profile or wash?

For a wash unit Blizzard's Stiletto Z19 is in your budget range offering 19 x 12.8w 4-in-1 RGBW CREE™ LEDs, can zoom from 7 to 50 degrees and offers 3000Hz flicker-free LED drive circuits.
http://www.blizzardlighting.com/products/moving-head-lights/item/173-stiletto-z19

For a profile fixture Their G Max 150 is in the same price range and feature packed with two 7 slot gobo wheels (one rotating,) one 3 facet prism and one 8 facet prism (both rotating and indexable) and a 15w light engine.
http://www.blizzardlighting.com/products/moving-head-lights/item/168-g-max150

 

[jcslighting]

I think some inexpensive moving lights would be a good addition, since we could use them to add excitement for higher-energy music/DJ/burlesque shows and for more subtle occasional effects in the dance theater style shows we do. Also I'm hoping they could also provide some movable specials for certain shows, so we don't always have to drag out a ladder and move audience chairs to focus specials for each show.

My question is, what moving lights would work best for this application? They would need to be pretty cheap, yet fairly reliable, but I don't think they'd need to be very bright. We don't normally run our conventionals intensity up very high unless they have a dark gel.

Would 4 LED moving head spots seems a reasonable choice? Maybe Chauvet or Elation? Our budget is somewhat flexible but if I can keep it to around $5000-7000 for 4 moving lights I'd have a better chance of getting it approved. I know that's low but we don't need the very best - we're just looking to start moving into more modern lighting.

Thanks very much for any help on this!

In my experience you might be better off dividing your needs into a couple solutions. First off, matching color temperatures and gel colors can be difficult with expensive fixtures and even harder with more budget minded ones. For example, matching a front wash special of say R02 with a cheap LED may be impossible. That being said, what about a rosco I-cue or two? They are simple moving mirror attachments that drop into the gel frame slot of an existing S4. They do require a power supply but are quick and accurate for a re-position-able special. I have used meteor elipscans for years to do just that but they are somewhat noisy and that eliminates their use in a smaller, lower trim space BUT the I-cues do the same thing without the noise.

From your post I think you also are looking for either flash & trash or at least some beam effects - mentioning "high energy music/DJ". Chauvet's Rogue line is great. We just added 2 of the Rogue R2 spots in one of our spaces and they are nice! While they would work for beam effects, the throw distance vs. beam angle makes them pretty useless for theatre. The R1 spot is cheaper and less wattage but might still add the impact you are looking for. I have used 12to20 deg moving lights overstage in a proscenium theatre trimmed out at 18' with decent results for accents and F&T but I wouldn't want to light a show with them as a wash- they just won't cover enough. The new Chauvet pro line stuff seems to be quality and not just cheap DJ stuff. Ideally for theatre you would want CMY mixing and not fixed dichroics as well as the ability to change gobos easily and they are hard to find in the lower pricepoints much less especially if they have any output to speak of. The R2 is brighter than a 575 discharge fixture by far and much quieter and cooler.

I don't know what dealers are near you but maybe either rent some movers for a show or have them demo a couple in your space this will give you the best idea of what will work in your situation.

 

[MikeJ]

Decent but wide spots are going to hard to come by. For washes, the R2 or Even the R1 would be a good choice, they both color mix very well and have respectable zoom range. I-cues might fill some of your needs if you use a 36 or 50 degree fixture with them.

 

[AdamC]

What are you looking to use the moving lights for? Color changing? Specials you can quickly refocus?

Well, I was originally thinking of getting 4 of one type of fixture to use for all types of applications. One one hand, changing focus and color for use in mostly static lighting looks, without needing to haul out ladders and move audience chairs to get to our pipe grid. On the other, wanting to have flashy effects available for high energy music and burlesque shows, with gobos and prisms. However, it doesn't seem like there's one type of fixture that can accomplish both of those goals very well, especially with our short throw and limited budget.

I'm now thinking we might be better off with a mix of washes and profiles/spots. Or maybe just washes that can zoom to a tight beam and do some effects.

Thanks everyone for helping me figure this out!

 

[wolfman005]

I'd recommend a wash light first. Decent beam angle and color seems like it would be the most important. You can also get some cool eye candy effects if they allow zoning or pixel mapping control of individual LEDs. At work we have Chauvet Rogue R2s, which might not be what would suit you best, but that's for you to decide.

 

[soundlight]

I think you could easily do Rogue R1 washes for a 250 cap space no problem. I just put a half dozen of them in to a 600 cap space and they look fantastic. I've used them as beam effects in a 900 cap space before and they looked great. They're also under a grand, so you could probably afford more of them which would allow you to really use them as a stage wash but also as flashy effect lights. They get both ridiculously narrow and ridiculously wide so they'll fill a ton of roles. If you're looking at spot fixtures, I'd say that the Intimidator 455Z is your best bet by far. That same space I put the R1 washes in to just added 2 Intimidator Spot 355Zs to their 2 Intimidator Spot 350s, and the 350s have been good so far. I've heard good things from other people who have used the newer Intimidator LED stuff. The 455Z would zoom out to a more usable size at 28 degrees. I might go with (4) R1 Wash and (2) Intimidator Spot 455Z.

 

[TDN]

I would take some time and start pulling pictures of the looks you want to achieve, then work backwards from there to help determine the lights you need. I'd hate for you to buy some very nice units but then underutilize them because they don't really fit what you are trying to achieve.

 

[TheLightmaster]

you mentioned wanting flashy stuff for DJs and live music; keep in mind busking movers on an Element is not the most intuitive. You can set up magic sheets and do some careful programming of macros and presets, but a different solution could be Martin's M-Touch with M-PC. More features than Element (multiple cuestacks, discrete timing) and easy to program for live shows, music nights, and complex theatre shows. all for under $1k.