My 1400w Hazer Machine, The power cord heats up !

stonehedge99

Active Member
Hi,

I have a 1500w Hazer and noticed during a show that the wire turned extremely hot. But after that it hasn't occurred when it runs on my home socket. I do remember using some varied brand of power cable that connects the unit to the power socket during that show. Maybe the power cable would have been inferior ? or the said socket wasn't able to handle the power load, which could be the reason ?

The hazer is rated as 1500w. If i connect it to a 15amps socket with 240v, (that means 240x15amps =3600w), would that be safe ?

Thanks
 
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Check the load rating printed into the cable, you might be drawing more amps than it is rated for.

Assuming the cable says it should be able to handle enough current, it sounds like you've had an experience with a cheap cable. Many cheap imported products actually use steel cabling or cheap alloys, which has a much higher resistance than proper leads, potentially resulting in melt-tastic failure!

You should probably seek a better cable, 1500W / 240v means that it's heating up to the level you describe at only 6.25 Amps.
 
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Check the load rating printed into the cable, you might be drawing more amps than it is rated for.

Assuming the cable says it should be able to handle enough current, it sounds like you've had an experience with a cheap cable. Many cheap imported products actually use steel cabling or cheap alloys, which has a much higher resistance than proper leads, potentially resulting in melt-tastic failure!

You should probably seek a better cable, 1500W / 240v means that it's heating up to the level you describe at only 6.25 Amps.

Hi Ed,

The cable im using doesnt have any rating printed on it. But in my country these cables etc hardly ever come rated with power specs. They are mostly cheap no name brands.
 
Sometimes loose screw terminals in the outlet, or on the cable connectors can be to blame, though usually you will find that the connector is quite warm too.

Hey Mike,

Quite possible, but i didn't have a chance to check the terminals at the outlet or if the terminal was warm because it was at a venue and this was just a little while before the show is supposed to start so i was under a lot of pressure.
 
Just to understand socket ratings, if a socket is rated 5 amps and the voltage on it is 240v, then it can support a device that draws upto 1200w right ?
And 15 amps @ 240v can support a device or devices drawing a total of upto 3600w ?

For example my led pars which are 54x3w = 162w. Lets say the other electronics in the fixture consumes another 20w. Hence total fixture consumption = 182w approx ?

So i can have 6 fixtures on a power strip drawing power from this 5A socket ?
 
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The hazer is rated as 1500w. If i connect it to a 15amps socket with 240v, (that means 240x15amps =3600w), would that be safe ?

Thanks
What voltage is the Hazer rated at? If it's 120 volts, it will draw 12.5 amps. If it is 240 volts, it will draw 6.25 amps.
Needless to say, if it is rated at 120 volts and you plug it into 240 volts you will no longer have a working hazer.
Available power on 15 amps for short term loads is 120v / 1800w or 240v / 3600w
Available power on 15 amps for long term loads is 120v / 1440w or 240v / 2880w
What is the wire gauge of the supply cable?
 
Hi John,

The hazer is rated at 240v only.

Can you explain what you mean by short/long term load ? Some approximate durations you could name ?

And as i already mentioned the cable has no marking of gauge.
 
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Long term load is defined as 3 consecutive hours, most Hader's run the heater on full, and the pump consumes comparatively little.
 
Hi John,

The hazer is rated at 240v only.

Can you explain what you mean by short/long term load ? Some approximate durations you could name ?

And as i already mentioned the cable has no marking of gauge.
As Ed just said, there is a caveat to running loads for long periods. Breakers don't simply trip when they get to their rated level. Short durations, such as a motor starting up, can exceed the breakers rating without tripping the breaker. On the flip side, long term loads require you to de-rate the circuit by some amount. In the US, those figures are a 20% de-rate for loads that may run for more than 3 hours. There is a sliding scale when it comes to overloads. The higher the overload, the quicker the breaker will trip. We see the number "15" and assume anything over that will trip it and anything under that is good, but for branch distribution panels, the "15" is just the starting point.
As with any rule, there are exceptions. For example, on an ETC dimmer (and some other brands), there is no de-rating. 20 means 20. From the NEC viewpoint, Theatrical switchboards (dimmers) have that exemption.
 
I meant to expand, but I had to leave right as I was typing.

In addition to what JD just said, what I was trying to get across is that most hazers always run the heater, and that the pump doesn't use very much power. The end result being that the hazer is always running at near peak load, so you must count the hazer as a continuous load.
 
OK so the hazer is a continuous load. And would running it 2 hours be considered as long term ? Can i run this 1500w hazer on a 15a socket of 240v for 2 hrs continuous ? My stages are all about 1000sqft approx. I intend to run the hazer starting half hour before the show (show duration 90 mins) and turn off maybe immediately after the show. So totally 2 hours. Also this hazers remote has an intermittent mode. Pump out smoke 30 seconds, then 30 seconds idle, repeat. But im sure the heater is not cutting off during the idle period. This is just to regulate pump out volume i guess.

For the stage size im talking, can i run the hazer 30 mins before the show and switch it off 30 mins before show end, because the haze would hang for about 30 mins ?

All closed airconditioned venues ofcourse.
 
Two hours technically isn't long term, but regardless of that, a single one of those hazers could operate 365 days a year on a 240V 15A circuit without even coming close to blowing it.

So yes, easily.
 
Great ! Any suggestions how long to run a hazer ? Would even 1 hour during the show do or just leave it on for the whole show duration with the largest idle gaps set on the remote ?

How do you guys do it ? When do you start it and shut down your hazers for a show of this size ?
 
Great ! Any suggestions how long to run a hazer ? Would even 1 hour during the show do or just leave it on for the whole show duration with the largest idle gaps set on the remote ?

How do you guys do it ? When do you start it and shut down your hazers for a show of this size ?

For large arena shows, I usually see people using DMX to control them from the lighting console. If your hazer does not have a DMX interface, just set it for a level that maintains the amount of haze you need for the show, and turn it on 30 minutes or so prior to show time. This is probably the second-most common scenario I see. It'll just take some testing in the venue under show conditions (HVAC running as normal) to find those balances of how much output and how much lead time you need to fill the space.

Ideally, a hazer (unlike a fogger) is a "set it and forget it" kind of device.

One follow-up to your power cord question. You said you used some varied brand of power cable, which naturally leads me to believe it is either IEC or PowerCon. I have seen some pretty wimpy versions of both those cables (like IEC cords intended for inkjet printers and PowerCon's intended for LED fixtures). Make sure you use a cable of the correct capacity for your hazer. 6.25A is not very much, but I would try to use a 12 or 14 gauge cable.
 
Hi Ed,

The cable im using doesnt have any rating printed on it. But in my country these cables etc hardly ever come rated with power specs. They are mostly cheap no name brands.
What is your country? I'd suggest finding or importing a cable that DOES come rated with power specs.
 
Sorry guys that i couldn't reply earlier. There are no marked/calibrated cables that im able to find, despite deep google digging. There are a very few from non responsive factories or exporters who don't reply etc, understandably because they are into mainstream or bulk maybe.

I just yesterday ran the hazer on my home normal 5amp socket for 6 hours and there was absolutely no heating on the wire. Ofcourse the hazer was on a 8 min interval and 10 secs smoke output setting. So i guess the load isn't as high as running it on continuous, if the heat element/pump works that way. The indicator led could be seen glowing every now and then like a thermostat and cutting off, i assume that's to keep the heater warm and ready. I think hazers work that way ? During idle/interval time i don't think they consume 1500w right ?
Sorry guys that i couldn't reply earlier. There are no marked/calibrated cables that im able to find, despite deep google digging. There are a very few from non responsive factories or exporters who don't reply etc, understandably because they are into mainstream or bulk maybe.

I just yesterday ran the hazer on my home normal 5amp socket for 6 hours and there was absolutely no heating on the wire. Ofcourse the hazer was on a 8 min interval and 10 secs smoke output setting. So i guess the load isn't as high as running it on continuous, if the heat element/pump works that way. The indicator led could be seen glowing every now and then like a thermostat and cutting off, i assume that's to keep the heater warm and ready. I think hazers work that way ? During idle/interval time i don't think they consume 1500w right ?
 
It sounds like you have more of a "fazer", not that it's a bad thing. A true hazer has no heater – just an air pump for atomizing mineral oil. That said, there are a lot of products out there now that are more of a hybrid, mostly due to the logistics, hassle, and expense of dealing with oil-based haze fluid.

You are right; the 1500w is the peak draw for when the heating element is on, which is probably all-or-nothing (no variable temp or anything like that). I would find the most heavy-duty cord that will fit (12-14 gauge) and go with that. I think you see the need for one that will not heat up under any circumstances since it would be so easy for someone to set the machine "incorrectly", forget about it, and cause a fire.
 
I don't know if the "FAZER" was a joke or if it really exists, or maybe you sarcastically meant fake hazer. Anyway mine isn't an oil based machine. Its a water based haze machine. I will try to get a better cord when i come across one. But the 6-8 hour test at home didnt even yield a slight warmth to the cable.

On a side note, after the 6 hour run. When i moved the machine i saw a small puddle of haze fluid below he machine. Maybe 3 teaspoons in volume in a neat puddle, suggesting it dripped from the machine bottom ? Is this normal ?
 
I don't know if the "FAZER" was a joke or if it really exists, or maybe you sarcastically meant fake hazer.

"Fazer" stands for 'fogger-hazer'. It's a term referring to the category of haze machines that feature a built-in heater core, similar to a fogger.

On a side note, after the 6 hour run. When i moved the machine i saw a small puddle of haze fluid below he machine. Maybe 3 teaspoons in volume in a neat puddle, suggesting it dripped from the machine bottom ? Is this normal ?

Could be fluid condensation or a small leak in the machine's plumbing.
 

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