Need advice concerning pyrotechnics (UK)

[MichaelPHS]

Unsure if this is the correct board, but I need help with the above. Started a new job and the venue has no pyro licence holder or safe storage area (basically kept in a box on a shelf in a store room, its a sports bar). I am not pyro trained myself so am unsure on the regs, but am I right in thinking we shouldn't even have them on our premises without a licence holder, let alone in said unsafe storage conditions? There are no 'big risk' pyros there, cou0pe streamers and a gold flash or 2 (I know all pyro is high risk anyway). Any advice much appriciated

 

[gafftaper]

The best answer is to call your AHJ, whatever the UK equivalent of the Fire Marshall is here in the states. On the other hand you run the risk of being branded a trouble maker and getting fired for turning your boss in for a violation. Here in the states it's probably not allowed, there are lots of new restrictions on Pyro since 9/11. But again every city, county, and state is different so you have to call and find out.

I would try the slow tactful route with your boss. "I don't think these are supposed to be just left around like this. There may be permit requirements and special storage regulations. Would you mind if do some research on it? I would hate to see you get in trouble during a fire inspection and be fined for having them here improperly." If he says no. Then you know your new boss doesn't care about the safety of you or his customers and I would start sending out applications to work somewhere else. If he says yes, give the local fire officials a call playing dumb, not identifying where you work. "I work in a bar and my boss is interested in purchasing some of these items to use for concerts in the bar. What are the permit requirements? What are the storage requirements?... etc." The other thing to do is do some research on your local city government website. These days most rules and regulations for local jurisdictions are available online.


I'm going to move this over to the special effects forum.

 

[TimG]

I have worked in multiple venues in the UK and working for a few touring companies and in all my experience I have only ever worked with 1 pyrotech even though there has normally been pyros used in shows or stored on site. They can be stored on site as long as they are stored in a licked metal fire-proof container and only one person has the keys to the lock (in my experience).

I found this on the le Maitra FAQ page: http://www.lemaitreltd.com/faqs.aspx

"Do I need a license to store pyrotechnics?"

"Possibly. You should check with your local trading standards department. The information you will need is the hazard type (Usually 4), the Net Explosive Quantity (this can be found on the side of the shipping box as NEQ or NEC) of the pyrotechnics you will be storing. You may also need to know the UN Numbers for pyrotechnics; these are 0432 for 1.4s and 0431 for 1.4g. The laws regarding the storage of explosives changed in 2005, you should check the new MSER regulations to ensure you comply. Below is a brief "in a nutshell" version of how MSER affects pyrotechnic users. •You can store up to 5kg of Explosives from Hazard Type 4 without a license. •You can store up to 100kg of Hazard Type 3/4 for less than 3 days. •Pyrotechnics should no longer be stored in locked metal boxes or cabinets, instead they should remain in the outer shipping box as this box has been approved to United Nations standards Please note that these weights only apply to the explosive content and not the gross weight. Explosive weights can be found on the SDS Sheets or on the brown delivery box (NEC or NEQ mark). - See more at: http://www.lemaitreltd.com/faqs.aspx#sthash.gfaA5T0L.dpuf"

I would check out the UK regulations as they probably much stricter.

Hope this helps!

 

[JD]

I can't address the regulations in the UK as I no knowledge base on that. What I can say is that all pyro can be high risk. Almost all stage pyro uses metals and metal oxidizers, such as Magnesium and Potassium-perchlorate. As such they burn at a very high temperature. Those who have had training know about heat and flash points and can generally use them in a safe manner. (no second chances in that biz.) But even streamers can turn deadly as we saw in the massive Rhode Island nightclub fire we had in the states a few years back. Bottom line is that common sense tells me that if no one at the revenue is trained and there are questions of storage and liability, then you want to move in the direction of getting them out of the building in as diplomatic a way as possible as soon as possible.

 

[Les]

I agree with the above, but can also only speak for how things are in the US. Based off that knowledge, pyrotechnics need to be stored in an approved magazine - whether that is a sprinklered room with walls carrying a certain fire rating, a completely separate (purpose-built) building, or simply a metal box located in a secure area is up to the AHJ and local codes. Lots of technicalities with insurance exist as well.

You are right that if it doesn't look right, it probably isn't.


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[ChaoticMoth]

It maybe worth getting in touch with the Association of Stage Pyrotechnicians (http://www.stage-pyro.org.uk/news.php) they should be able to give more advice and information on current regs.

 

[Ric]

Try asking directly on http://www.blue-room.org.uk/
They have an effects & pyro area and are bound to be able to tell you the correct local information.

 

[MagicDave]

As a British Pyrotechnician (and trained fire officer/ H&S manager) I believe that I can answer this for you. Basically the rules regarding pyrotechnics are not completely set in stone. You do need to comply with the health and safety act, along with general EU regs about pyro, but there is not outright requirement for someone to be a licensed person in most areas but in the UK it is expected (as with most health and safety issues in the theatre) that the operator/controller should have certain competencies. In most professional venues its expected that anyone responsible for pyro has some sort of training and experience (JustFX and Stage Electrics do a good course on practical safety) and all storage should comply with relevant regulations (which should be on the safety data sheets provided with the pyro - you can get them from the supplier as well if needed).

Regarding storage there are new recommendations that someone mentioned earlier about storing in the cardboard boxes. This is correct, but many venues still store in locked metal cabinets. As long as you have taken reasonably practical steps to ensure the safety of the pyro you should be OK. (In this case practical steps would be what is seen to be reasonable by your peers - i.e. professional technicians)

What I will say is that pyro in a sports bar is a very dangerous thing. The station nightclub fire is a perfect example of this. People in a nightclub situation did not think about pyro or fire safety and because of their mistake over 100 people died -

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(Warning: Its a very graphic video, but its a first hand view of what happens in a bar with pyro and no trained staff)

If you have any questions about pyro then feel free to PM me. I'm also available for consultation if you need help with this.

 

[JD]

The Station Night Club is the perfect example of Rule #2 being broken (Along with 1 to 50.) No matter how experienced you are (they weren't), you need to take a very good look around you at the venue to assess everything that could go wrong. Any wall, floor, or ceiling could very unintentionally become part of the effect, so to speak. Even props being added at the last minute need to be assessed.