# Need an ultra cheap hanging/trussing solution

#### muvment

##### Active Member
Just booked a show at an odd venue. Ceiling are only 9' and no place to hang anything whatsoever. Budget is limited and none of my trussing can be mounted anywhere. I need to fly 8 trackspots, 4 technobeams, some emulators, and other various gear. But I may cut the show down to 6 fixtures on 2 universes. Whats the cheapest way to go about this?

Doesn't need to be in code, but I dodn't want to spend $250 renting stands if I can buy some junky stands for cheap or build something from home depot parts. Must be free stanging. I could put 2 trackspots per stand and maybe 1 technobeam per stand. Budget is priority. #### pudgeo2 ##### Member If I was going to do this, I would probaly start with purchasing some 6x6 lumber and using those as your booms. Of course you would need to make a base that would be no less than 2'x2', and secure the 6x6 to it with angle braces (not angle iron, a 3/4" plywood cut at 45 deg angles attached to the 6x6 and 3/4" base). Then get some sandbags and weigh down each base. You would want you base to be at least 1.5 time as heavy as what you are putting on the tree. Then to attach the fixtures I would look into through bolting it some how. I'm not sure how that would work, but that should give you a solid start. #### soundlight ##### Well-Known Member Purchasing enough 6x6 to make the necessary stands is going to cost at least as much as renting some T-stands. You might look in to renting two nice t-stands and some sch. 40 pipe to put between them. #### soundman ##### Well-Known Member Umm I wouldn't tell the cleint your putting the budget ahead of saftey. That being said boom bases and sch 40 pipe with side arms would be my bet. Or if you own truss you could rent some floor bases for it and stand it on end. #### pudgeo2 ##### Member I agree that 6x6 would be expensive, but if you were going to use wood I probaly wouldn't do any narrower for the uprights. You could probaly get away with 2x6 for the cross, but then you only have 1.5" to attach anything to. #### derekleffew ##### Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member Oh, how my hackles bristled at the title of this thread, and still do, somewhat. The words in the title have no business being next to each other. But your least expensive solution is going to be to rent/buy 50# boom bases, rigid cheeseboroughs and 1.5" Sched.40 BIP. With a 9' ceiling, the room can't be that big, so just distribute your booms against the walls and call it a day. Single booms, or goal posts, whatever works. Without lagging your Technobeams into the ceiling, they'd be too low for overhead use anyway, not to mention the tiny beams you'd get from an 8' throw. Hang your scanners "mirror up" for highest angle. You're near Seattle, right? Maybe a guy named Mark has some brand new iron he can rent to you. There's lots of theatres in Seattle, maybe one has some bases and pipe they're not using, and would like$50-$100 for their slush fund? #### len ##### Well-Known Member Sometimes you just have to say "no" if budget is that big an issue. Is your reputation and the safety of the guests more important than saving a few bucks? Either do it safely or don't do it at all. I agree with Derek. Pipe and base are probably the lease expensive option that would still be relatively safe. #### muvment ##### Active Member Oh, how my hackles bristled at the title of this thread, and still do, somewhat. The words in the title have no business being next to each other. But your least expensive solution is going to be to rent/buy 50# boom bases, rigid cheeseboroughs and 1.5" Sched.40 BIP. With a 9' ceiling, the room can't be that big, so just distribute your booms against the walls and call it a day. Single booms, or goal posts, whatever works. Without lagging your Technobeams into the ceiling, they'd be too low for overhead use anyway, not to mention the tiny beams you'd get from an 8' throw. Hang your scanners "mirror up" for highest angle. You're near Seattle, right? Maybe a guy named Mark has some brand new iron he can rent to you. There's lots of theatres in Seattle, maybe one has some bases and pipe they're not using, and would like$50-$100 for their slush fund? You have a point and also struck the 'dumb' chord in my brain. I work for a theater, i'm sure there's gear in storage that will fit my needs. I have no idea why this didn't occur to me earlier. (I rent them all of my intelligent fixtures when not in use, I've just never bothered borrowing their gear because I usually don't have a use for it). I'll spend next week going through our unused gear. #### derekleffew ##### Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member #### Pie4Weebl ##### Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia #### derekleffew ##### Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member as long as your donation doesn't come out of the rigging budget.... Good answer. But$30 only buys three truss bolt set-ups and you need four per joint, so just make the FOH truss 10' narrower, and donate the $800 cost of the MD202010 to CB!. #### DarSax ##### Active Member I know from experience on these boards that anything really relating to rigging, hanging, etc. is taboo and is going to be met (understandably and necessarily) with cries of "don't do it unless you're certified!" and the likes, because safety's always the utmost utmost priority. But I was just wondering, if I was to hypothetically rent, say, 3 sticks of 10x12x12 Tomcat truss, floor bases, sandbags, etc. to make into a "goalpost" of sorts, and hang pars, maybe even intels, off of, would that be something legal from an unlicensed rigger? Hope I'm not heading into dangerous legal territory, I'm just wondering if I can find the answer on CB on where approx. the line is drawn between stuff like T-Stands, which seem pretty safe for most people to use (within reason of course) and other freestanding stuff which would be bad, bad news for unexperienced people to use. I'll understand if I'm treading too dangerous ground to answer that question, hope WhatRigger doesn't come on and bite my head off too bad :O #### avkid ##### Not a New User Fight Leukemia Riggers are not licensed per say. The ETCP program is voluntary. However, if you don't have at least US$1 Million in liability insurance don't even think about overhead rigging.
Don't you need 4 pieces to make goal post?
Vertical pole for base
horizontal piece as bridge
two upright poles

#### derekleffew

##### Resident Curmudgeon
Senior Team
I know from experience on these boards that anything really relating to rigging, hanging, etc. is taboo and is going to be met (understandably and necessarily) with cries of "don't do it unless you're certified!" and the likes, because safety's always the utmost utmost priority.

But I was just wondering, if I was to hypothetically rent, say, 3 sticks of 10x12x12 Tomcat truss, floor bases, sandbags, etc. to make into a "goalpost" of sorts, and hang pars, maybe even intels, off of, would that be something legal from an unlicensed rigger? Hope I'm not heading into dangerous legal territory, I'm just wondering if I can find the answer on CB on where approx. the line is drawn between stuff like T-Stands, which seem pretty safe for most people to use (within reason of course) and other freestanding stuff which would be bad, bad news for unexperienced people to use.

I'll understand if I'm treading too dangerous ground to answer that question, hope WhatRigger doesn't come on and bite my head off too bad :O
I'll "hypothetically" answer your question, with my standard disclaimer. Neither the author nor Control Booth is/are qualified or capable of dispensing structural advice or information regarding the suitability of any equipment or material(s) for a particularly design intent.

First, you use the phrase "would that be something legal from an unlicensed rigger?" A bunch of things wrong in that sentence. I'll leave the legalities to Muvment, although he, too, is prevented from offering legal advice.

Truss sections are always specified with length last, so your 10x12x12 should be 12x12x10. Floor bases for truss towers are usually 4' square, so your truss arch now has a usable egress area of 6', and the edges of the bases could pose a trip hazard. In many areas, sandbags would not be required, particularly if a safety is attached to the roof, by an ETCP-certified or other-qualified rigger. If a safety is deemed not required, erecting a structure that you describe would not require any riggers in most jurisdictions, as nothing is suspended overhead. I would NOT hang MAC2000s or VL3000s off a structure, but 700W or smaller moving heads would be okay, provided there aren't a bunch of them all doing the same ballyhoo.

Note that ground support not requiring riggers is not always safer. Some years ago a Home Show at the Las Vegas Convention Center erroneously decreed that there would be no overhead rigging, only ground-support rigs. When a forklift driver attempted to plumb one of the tower legs, the structure fell. I can't find a picture, but read page 15 of this PDF, regarding some of the work jurisdictions.

Oh, and don't forget corner blocks and truss bolts in your rental package. I hope I've done my best in not answering your question.

Be Safe, Stay Safe--Hire a qualified professional each and every time!

#### DarSax

##### Active Member
Certified...that's what I meant. And thanks for the clarification on the truss specs.

And I really meant hypothetical, I'm not actually assembling any such rental package, but of course I would need bolts, blocks, etc., right. And I just threw together that package, of course more thought would be needed as far as roof safeties, supports, sandbags (or lack thereof), etc. etc. etc.

Oh, and when you said "goalpost" I thought "soccer goalpost." Oops (and the super bowl is even right around the corner!)

#### derekleffew

##### Resident Curmudgeon
Senior Team
Basically, a goalpost in lighting terms is any structure with two verticals and a horizontal. But what you've, hypothectically, described is more correctly referred to as a "truss arch." Goalposts are usually built with two 50# bases, 2 cheeseburgers, and 3 pipes. Now at 4am on Sunday, February 03, 2008, I'll be building two goal posts out of 20.5x20.5 truss. I better look up what colors the toners need to be. One floor base and two motors.

Each GP:
5x MD20x20x10
1x MD20x20x05
4x 6w CB
1x 4x4Base
10x Bolt set-ups (of 4)

5x S4PAR-NSP 575W

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#### David Ashton

##### Well-Known Member
If the roof is concrete then I would use acro-props as uprights and scaff pipe horizontals, this would be extremely strong, if the ceiling is plaster forget it and if the ceiling is tiles, then lift one up and see if there is a concrete roof above you can load against.If this works there is probably no safer way to do it.

#### Logos

##### Well-Known Member
I'm putting a show into a shop at the moment and the acroprop solution hadn't occurred to me. I will lift the tiles tomorrow am and see if I have a concrete ceiling above the tiles.

#### What Rigger?

##### I'm so fly....I Neverland.
Just booked a show at an odd venue. Ceiling are only 9' and no place to hang anything whatsoever. Budget is limited and none of my trussing can be mounted anywhere. I need to fly 8 trackspots, 4 technobeams, some emulators, and other various gear. But I may cut the show down to 6 fixtures on 2 universes. Whats the cheapest way to go about this? Hire a legitimate rigging company to do it for you. Cost of that versus the lawsuit you're begging for is negligible.
Doesn't need to be in code, What do you mean it doesn't need to be in code. What's "it"? What code are you referring to? but I dodn't want to spend \$250 renting stands if I can buy some junky stands for cheap or build something from home depot parts. Must be free stanging. I could put 2 trackspots per stand and maybe 1 technobeam per stand. Budget is priority. Wrong. Wrong. Ten thousand times wrong. SAFETY is priority. Somebody at that law firm of yours must be able to direct you toward lawyers who have to fight it out and/or clean up the mess of people who chose budget over safety when it came to rigging.