Need help identifying the lighting control protocol this studio’s lighting grid is operating on.

[Greeneen]

Hey, I have been trying to determine if this lighting control system could be modified with a more modern controller (or even at the very least a replaceable control board if this goes out) but I haven’t been able to find any information on this system or what control protocol it’s operating on.

The system controls 16 independent dimmers designed for tungsten lighting.

The plug model is a LEMO FGG.2B.306.CLAD92Z…

I believe this was all installed back in 2000 but anyone with knowledge about it has been gone more than a decade and the contracting company that installed it no longer exists.

Besides that Leviton company name there’s no identification or manufacturing number on the controller pictured above and the same goes for any of the hardware paneling that’s powering the grid. I also checked the circuit board this controller is sending information back to and that’s also lacking information identifying what I’m working with.

We unfortunately don’t use the lights on this grid very often. I installed a number of RGBW LEDs that are powered from a different source and controlled via DMX and that’s just way more versatile to use but I’ve felt this system still has potential applications and it’s going to waist due to the limitations the current control set up has.

I’d love to know if we have any options, any help would be appreciated!

 

[Crisp image]

You could try sending Leviton a message with your photo and ask them if they have a copy of the user manual somewhere.

 

[JimmyM]

Is there any identifying information on the bottom of the unit? Seems like a remote to a larger system, where are the dimmers? Photos of the dimmers and any associated racks might be of more value. Even if they have no obvious identifying information.

 

[gafftaper]

Every manufacturer had their own control language back in the day. My guess is that's an older product than you think. It may have been installed in 2000 but it may have been kicking around someone's warehouse for a while before that. Try contacting Leviton directly and asking for help identifying it if no body here knows what it is. I would guess that it probably speaks the standard Leviton protocol from the 90's.

Once you sort out the exact protocol Doug Fleenor Design either already has a device or can build you a device that will handle the conversion to DMX. @jfleenor can help you out.

That said your money would probably be better spent on abandoning the old dimmers and moving forward with a replacement strategy.

 

[RickR]

If that console doesn't have a power cord then it's getting it from the dimmers via that cable. NSI/Leviton's LMX does that and its great for such simple setups, but it will fry DMX chips.

Can you post a shot of the dimmers? Some similar age Leviton products take both LMX and DMX.

 

[derekleffew]

Seems like a remote to a larger system, where are the dimmers?

This I think. Part of an architectural lighting control system. Your 6pin Lemo probably is carrying Colortran Viewpoint or NSI Luma-Net data. A random search finds this https://goknight.com/colortran-viewpoint/ . The guys at dfd.com or Pathway @Rob would know for sure.

 

[Greeneen]

If that console doesn't have a power cord then it's getting it from the dimmers via that cable. NSI/Leviton's LMX does that and its great for such simple setups, but it will fry DMX chips.

Can you post a shot of the dimmers? Some similar age Leviton products take both LMX and DMX.

Thanks for the input! No power cord, it’s via the cable.

I haven’t actually opened up the chassis with all the electrical until now… Here is the dimmer.

I found one piece of documentation searching for that part https://www.leviton.com/en/docs/Instruction_Sheet_MDS.pdf but only page 11 is relevant. The control system described there is not the same.

“The DI21-120U dimmer is capable of driving:
• Regular incandescent, quartz, quartz halogen, tungsten argon and similar lamp loads
• Stepdown transformers to operate low voltage incandescent lamp types
• Certain electronic stepdown transformers (Check exact types for compatibility)
• Neon and cold cathode transformers, of the low power factor type
• Fluorescent dimmer ballasts requiring 0 VDC to +10 VDC control signals The dimmer here acts as an on/off contactor and the 10 VDC control comes from the control board in the dimmer.
• Fluorescent dimmer ballasts using two wires for both power and control using the Advance Mark X dimmer ballasts
• Fluorescent dimmer ballasts using two wires for both power and control using the Lutron TuWire ballasts
• Non-dim loads that need to be only turned on and off by the module, not dimmed
• Dimmed loads that require complete turn off at some point (done by correctly programming each dimmer slot for the load that is to be connected)”

Here are a few other photos of what’s controlling the unit.

That covered part says DMS CPU

 

[Greeneen]

This I think. Part of an architectural lighting control system. Your 6pin Lemo probably is carrying Colortran Viewpoint data. A random search finds this https://goknight.com/colortran-viewpoint/ . The guys at dfd.com or Pathway @Rob would know for sure

Thanks for link, I’ll reach out. And yeah, there is a much larger portion of the control system that’s not easy accessible. I just posted some more photos of everything.

 

[Greeneen]

Every manufacturer had their own control language back in the day. My guess is that's an older product than you think. It may have been installed in 2000 but it may have been kicking around someone's warehouse for a while before that. Try contacting Leviton directly and asking for help identifying it if no body here knows what it is. I would guess that it probably speaks the standard Leviton protocol from the 90's.

Once you sort out the exact protocol Doug Fleenor Design either already has a device or can build you a device that will handle the conversion to DMX. @jfleenor can help you out.

That said your money would probably be better spent on abandoning the old dimmers and moving forward with a replacement strategy.

I just contacted them. I couldn’t find any email, only a contact form so hopefully when the get back I can send them some photos because my discription probably wasn’t very helpful in identification.

And in regards to your last comment, that was my initial thought or just abandoning it completely. The current set up with our LEDs has been working really well but there have been moments I’d have liked to use the old system with some live music situations and just wanted to see if it had any capability beyond its current state.

 

[gafftaper]

I just contacted them. I couldn’t find any email, only a contact form so hopefully when the get back I can send them some photos because my discription probably wasn’t very helpful in identification.

And in regards to your last comment, that was my initial thought or just abandoning it completely. The current set up with our LEDs has been working really well but there have been moments I’d have liked to use the old system with some live music situations and just wanted to see if it had any capability beyond its current state.

@jfleenor from DFD and @Rob from Pathway are always hanging around CB and will likely hop into this thread soon. Someone at one of those companies likely has dealt with this product line before and one of them probably makes a DMX adapter. However, it will likely not be cheap and you are investing money in controlling very old dimmers that will likely need to be put out of their misery soon. I encourage you to look at abandoning the dimmers and converting over to LED's and a new light board. Unfortunately that's a $10k minimum project (it could easily be double that depending on your electrical situation). LED fixtures that you won't regret buying start around $500. Anything below $150 is DJ quality at best it won't be bright enough, it won't look good rendering white, and it won't last. The $200-$500 has a few products that look okay but they tend to not look the best on human skin (like cheap Christmas lights attempting to make white) and they are less reliable over the long haul. Unfortunately to get good looking LED's you simply have to pay for higher quality components and the entry level price starts around $500. My favorite "cheap" led fixture is the ETC Colorsource PAR and those are going to be around $750-$800 each. Yeah, that's not cheap but it's cheaper than paying $2k+ for something like a Chauvet Ovation Reve 3 or ETC Source Four Lustr 3 (BTW my vote is for the Reve 3).

 

[Mac Hosehead]

Here is another possible source for information:

Macro Electronics dimming & control – where did they go?

Knight Sound & Lighting can help repair, service or find parts for your Macro Electronics systems (Leviton MDS)!

goknight.com

This system resembles the Macro Electronics DMS dimmer system and the ramp card in the photo is labeled as such. No mention of DMX or Luma-net control. Doug Fleenor or someone from Knight Lighting might have interfaced to these cabinets in the past. Other than that, DMS CPU appears to be sending analog control for each dimmer to the ramp card on the terminal strip. Probably 0-10 volts but could be measured.

 

[microstar]

If you will notice, the pc board says "Macro Electronics" which is/was Macro Electronics Corp of Austin, TX. which was acquired by Leviton in late 1990's-2000. Eventually Leviton produced the equipment under their own name. Leviton then acquired NSI Corp.
See this page on the Knight Sound and Lighting website for a lot of good info on the controllers and dimmers in your system:
https://goknight.com/blog/macro-electronics-dimming-control-where-did-they-go/
Here is one photo on that page... never mind. @Mac Hosehead beat me to it.

 

[Rob]

@gafftaper I got nothing! Not seen this device before. Looks like it was cool in its time.

 

[gafftaper]

@gafftaper I got nothing! Not seen this device before. Looks like it was cool in its time.

If it's determined that the dimmers are speaking the stock 90's Leviton proprietary control language, does Pathway make a DMX converter tool for that?

 

[gafftaper]

Thanks for the input! No power cord, it’s via the cable.

I haven’t actually opened up the chassis with all the electrical until now… Here is the dimmer.

View attachment 22827

I found one piece of documentation searching for that part https://www.leviton.com/en/docs/Instruction_Sheet_MDS.pdf but only page 11 is relevant. The control system described there is not the same.

“The DI21-120U dimmer is capable of driving:
• Regular incandescent, quartz, quartz halogen, tungsten argon and similar lamp loads
• Stepdown transformers to operate low voltage incandescent lamp types
• Certain electronic stepdown transformers (Check exact types for compatibility)
• Neon and cold cathode transformers, of the low power factor type
• Fluorescent dimmer ballasts requiring 0 VDC to +10 VDC control signals The dimmer here acts as an on/off contactor and the 10 VDC control comes from the control board in the dimmer.
• Fluorescent dimmer ballasts using two wires for both power and control using the Advance Mark X dimmer ballasts
• Fluorescent dimmer ballasts using two wires for both power and control using the Lutron TuWire ballasts
• Non-dim loads that need to be only turned on and off by the module, not dimmed
• Dimmed loads that require complete turn off at some point (done by correctly programming each dimmer slot for the load that is to be connected)”

Here are a few other photos of what’s controlling the unit.
View attachment 22831
That covered part says DMS CPU

View attachment 22835
View attachment 22834

When you look around the exterior of the dimmer rack, is there any sort of plug in location to connect to?

 

[Rob]

does Pathway make a DMX converter tool for that?

I don't believe so. Just (AMX, ECMUX, D54, AVAB, K96) See here.

 

[RickR]

Pardon my memory, but isn't LMX really Leviton branded AMX?

 

[derekleffew]

the stock 90's Leviton proprietary control language,

There isn't one, as Leviton was not in the business of Stage Lighting Control in the 1990s. Arguably even after purchasing NSI/Colortran.

Pardon my memory, but isn't LMX really Leviton branded AMX?

LMX is not a real thing! Like CMX. Unless speaking of LMX128 by Lightronics and a couple others.

 

[microstar]

The last photo of the pc board in your console has a terminal strip labelled "To Dimmers". 18 positions have wiring to them so you must have 18 dimmers and since it is 'wire per dimmer' it generally means it is an analog control system.
If you can located the "Com" or "Common" terminal on the pc board and measure the voltage (most likely DC) between it and one of the 18 terminals with the controller at full, that should tell you
what the control voltage is and then it would be relatively easy to source a DMX to analog converter to run the dimmers off your DMX controller.

 

[Mac Hosehead]

This thread has rattled some brain cells and I now recall working years ago on a similar Macro Electronics system installed in a local space. I am pretty sure that dimmer control voltage on the terminal strip is 0 - 10 volts. If you want to measure with a meter then you should find the "Com" connection on the minus side of the power supply. Other than the suggested DMX to analog converter, I am not aware of any other way to control this system.