need help... mobile french doors

[Kolin Blakely]

I've been challenged by the director to make "french doors" 12' wide 10' tall that need to be moved on and off stage... She wants it as close to the stage floor as possible so just placing on a rolling platform does not work. I'll attach a pic of my design... It'll be the top one in the pic... One issue is this is just 1x framing that the director wants to stay just the framing, no real support. My initial thought would be to get two small platforms on caster for the sides and then the door would "fall" in between the casters apprearing as though it's on the stage floor. The problem is there would be no rigidity and I'm afraid the framing would come apart from two separate platforms supporting each side. This probably makes no sense but any help would be appreciated. There won't be much weight to it since it's just 1x's but it's still pretty tall with no real structure.

 

[RonHebbard]

I've been challenged by the director to make "french doors" 12' wide 10' tall that need to be moved on and off stage... She wants it as close to the stage floor as possible so just placing on a rolling platform does not work. I'll attach a pic of my design... It'll be the top one in the pic... One issue is this is just 1x framing that the director wants to stay just the framing, no real support. My initial thought would be to get two small platforms on casters for the sides and then the door would "fall" in between the casters appearing as though it's on the stage floor. The problem is there would be no rigidity and I'm afraid the framing would come apart from two separate platforms supporting each side. This probably makes no sense but any help would be appreciated. There won't be much weight to it since it's just 1x's but it's still pretty tall with no real structure.

@Kolin Blakely Questions, so many questions?
Can I assume sheer curtains, if any, on your doors?
Your two supporting flats, the flats off to the sides, are they covered? Yes / no? With skin ply?
If you're working with 1" x [3/4"] can you / will you do half-lapped joints with glue and brads for rigidity?
Tag! You're it.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[Kolin Blakely]

@Kolin Blakely Questions, so many questions?
Can I assume sheer curtains, if any, on your doors?
Your two supporting flats, the flats off to the sides, are they covered? Yes / no? With skin ply?
If you're working with 1" x [3/4"] can you / will you do half-lapped joints with glue and brads for rigidity?
Tag! You're it.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

director wants it all open, doors and sides... so she wants nothing covered with sheer curtains or ANYTHING... You see my dilemma. In addition, very limited shop so half-lapped joints are not an option. At least not for this novice...

 

[RonHebbard]

director wants it all open, doors and sides... so she wants nothing covered with sheer curtains or ANYTHING... You see my dilemma. In addition, very limited shop so half-lapped joints are not an option. At least not for this novice...

@Kolin Blakely A simple table saw, or radial arm saw, plus lots of patience would gain you nice, flat, thin, 1/2 lapped joints where glue and pneumatic fired brads would be your best friends gaining you rigidity and structural integrity. Sheers add weight but gain you so many magically effective lighting options for day and night scenes as well as differing pre and post-sets.
Half-lapped joints don't have to be difficult, they just require care, time and patience.
Also, buy good wood; clear or #1 pine. No spruce or #3 stock full of knots and knot holes.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[sk8rsdad]

You could hide a lot of structure in some "decorative" columns on either side. If you can get some diagonals somewhere it would help with the 12' largely unsupported span. Google kreg jig mini for a useful tool for making fairly strong butt joints. Ideally, the 3 long horizontals would be continuous 1x4.

 

[Van]

Is making the Jamb and top spreaders out of HSS a possibility? Spanning the top of the doorway all the way across the two sides with a 1x3 piece of steel would add a lot of rigidity to this design.

 

[bobgaggle]

I see some areas where you can make compromises with your director. This thing needs to stand up. we don't have a side elevation, but I assume there's no return. So at the very least you're gonna have a jack on the back to keep it standing. since its all open, you're going to see the angled jack, so maybe you can talk the director into adding some diagonals somewhere to stiffen this thing. You can get good glue joints with half laps, but when the doors open the whole units going to shake and shimmy.

 

[venuetech]

Half lap joints can be made with a hand held circular saw, using the notch method.

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[Amiers]

How that guy didn't get a super cedar splinter is beyond me.

 

[venuetech]

I would have made much more liberal use of the power rotary chisel myself. (Circular Saw)

 

[Van]

A router, a flush cut plunge bit with a bearing and a template work well too...Heck you don't even need a template you're can just scribe some lines... if you're good.

On a side note: Many times what a Director "Wants" and "Has to have" are diametrically opposed to "Reality" and "The Laws of Physics" and such information needs to be properly, politely and succinctly relayed.

 

[RonHebbard]

A router, a flush cut plunge bit with a bearing and a template work well too...Heck you don't even need a template you're can just scribe some lines... if you're good.

On a side note: Many times what a Director "Wants" and "Has to have" are diametrically opposed to "Reality" and "The Laws of Physics" and such information needs to be properly, politely and succinctly relayed.

@Van Often the greater the number of dollars following the $ sign, the more properly / succinctly / speedily "they" comprehend.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[Crisp image]

Put a flat bar 1/8 in thick between the bottom of the doors to stop it spreading. If it is just above the floor when being moved is is good and if the cast step on it as they go through the doors it will flex and hit the floor. As far as standing it upright it will need some weight down low as it is 10ft tall that gives lots of top heaveness. And if doors open that changes the weight distribution and things fall over.
Lost to think about here.
Regards
Crispy

 

[garyvp]

I've been challenged by the director to make "french doors" 12' wide 10' tall that need to be moved on and off stage... She wants it as close to the stage floor as possible so just placing on a rolling platform does not work. I'll attach a pic of my design... It'll be the top one in the pic... One issue is this is just 1x framing that the director wants to stay just the framing, no real support. My initial thought would be to get two small platforms on caster for the sides and then the door would "fall" in between the casters apprearing as though it's on the stage floor. The problem is there would be no rigidity and I'm afraid the framing would come apart from two separate platforms supporting each side. This probably makes no sense but any help would be appreciated. There won't be much weight to it since it's just 1x's but it's still pretty tall with no real structure.

I built a door mounted in frame secured to a weighted base with jacks. It moved around the stage and had two sides. The same principle could be used for french doors. Keep in mind that this was a hollow core door and and the frame was really solid. I suggest you build the French doors out of 2x2 and 1x2. There was a 1x6 threshold running underneath the door to keep the structure rigid. See photos.

 

[Peter Bell]

Put a flat bar 1/8 in thick between the bottom of the doors to stop it spreading. If it is just above the floor when being moved is is good and if the cast step on it as they go through the doors it will flex and hit the floor. As far as standing it upright it will need some weight down low as it is 10ft tall that gives lots of top heaveness. And if doors open that changes the weight distribution and things fall over.
Lost to think about here.
Regards
Crispy

This is the answer. Kolin, you mentioned the idea of the platforms on each side and that is perfect. You just need a sill iron across the bottom. Put felt on the bottom of it and it will glide along the floor with no rattle. Extend it at least 4" into each side platform to give it good mounting for at least two screws per side, bolts if it is going to tour.

 

[TimmyP1955]

https://www.mcmaster.com/#5674k1/=19gvox4 There are very low cost ones at Harbor Freight.