Mixers/Consoles Need Help Setting Up PA with both Active Speakers and Sub with Crossover

[Raisedwell]

I want to setup my PA so that it runs the most efficient and reap the benefit of my equipment allowing me to do the following:

1. Utilize the onboard crossover built into the subwoofer.
2. Use the BBE for sound enhancement.
3. Using the DBX 166xl as a hard limiter to protect my equipment

Could someone please use the picture below and create a hookup diagram for me or maybe just let me know how to hook this PA up. Again, I want to be able to use my equipment in the best and most efficient way and am afraid that I will set something up wrong. Thanks in advance.




My equipment:
Yamaha MG166CX (NON USB)
BBE 362SW (Subwoofer Control)
DBX 166xl (Gate/Compressor)
Carvin LS1801NA (Active 18” Subwoofer)
Carvin PM15A (Active 15” Speakers)
​

 

[bishopthomas]

I say lose the BBE. I've never been a fan of those "sonic maximizer" units. Honestly, I'd probably lose the compressor as well, use it on a channel rather than the entire mix. Are you using only one subwoofer? I really like aux fed subs, especially if there's only one. This allows you to control what channels go to the subwoofers and how much level. So, I would recommend going XLR out of the mixer's main outs into the PPM15A's. Then go TRS from the aux out of the mixer to either the TRS or XLR input of the subwoofer.

Also, welcome to Control Booth!

 

[tk2k]

Seconded on all except ditching the compressor.

First off, what audio sources are you using? If you're playing pre-recorded music no need for the compressor, but if you're doing live stuff or a make-it-yourself dj it'll be useful.

This might come off wrong over the internet, so imagine someone saying this nicely. I'll tell you how to hook it up but if you need a visual guide you probably should pick up a fundamentals of sound book and go through that for a little bit.

xlr out of the sound board to the compressor to your mains (15" active)
Then use aux send 1 or 2 to go to the sub via TRS cable (balanced 1/4th inch)

ditch the sonic max and just kick the bass up on the channel EQ.

 

[museav]

Your powered speakers already have their own integrated limiters, so you may not gain much from an additional limiter unless it is to protect the BBE.

Since you note active 18" subwoofer (singular) and active 15" speakers (plural), rather than using the crossover in the sub, which could be awkward with one sub and two mains, you apparently could use the BBE just as a very simple crossover and then bypass the crossover in the subwoofer and the processing in the BBE.

 

[bishopthomas]

Or if you don't want to run aux fed subs and don't mind mixing in mono (I rarely ever need stereo myself) you can connect:

Mixer
Subwoofer
Top
Top

 

[TimmyP1955]

Reading the Carvin poop sheet on the tops, it would appear that there's a decent high pass filter in the box, though the frequency is quite low if the response chart is to be believed (-6dB at about 50Hz).

The sub has an active HPF output is switchable between 80Hz and 120Hz. Using this to feed the tops will in theory give you some overlap between the cabinets. But it might work (you might need to reverse the polarity on the tops). Try that before buying a crossover.

Ditch the BBE, unless you find that it works well as an insert on a channel. I've mixed on systems that had a BBE on the mains, and every system sounded better with the BBE taken out of the signal path.

 

[SwanSong]

The mains and the sub both seem to be peaking with the above set up. Any clues as to what to lower from the input so we can get a better max output? Unable to put the volume past 12:00 on any speakers.

 

[chausman]

The mains and the sub both seem to be peaking with the above set up. Any clues as to what to lower from the input so we can get a better max output? Unable to put the volume past 12:00 on any speakers.

Gain structure is a very finicky thing to try and diagnose on the internet. Do you need it louder, or just want to set them past 12 o'clock on the dials?

 

[museav]

Gain structure is a very finicky thing to try and diagnose on the internet.

And even more challenging when there is no manual or specs for the subwoofer and the online mains speaker 'manual' is more a sales sheet that doesn't identify what the clip light is actually showing or what input levels the speaker handles. Not that I'd trust info from a manufacturer that lists a 700W continuous and 1,400W peak power rating or that and a 4 Ohm impedance as relevant, much less the only, specs for a powered speaker.

Anyways, I can find the nominal or peak input and output levels for the other devices but without knowing what the speakers handle that does make the problem difficult to diagnose without being there. It also makes it difficult to suggest how to configure the comp/limiter, but if you are using it for peak limiting and it is set properly then you should not be seeing more than intermittent peaking, if any, at the speakers.

The mains and the sub both seem to be peaking with the above set up. Any clues as to what to lower from the input so we can get a better max output? Unable to put the volume past 12:00 on any speakers.

Can you clarify the setup? You have a two channel mixer and two channel processors, one of which also provides a mono subwoofer output. You also apparently have a single powered sub that has the option for a high pass output and two powered mains. I'm not clear on whether you are using the BBE or not or on how you have everything wired between devices.

Of course there may also be a simple factor of whether you should expect to be able to turn the input past 12:00 or expect to get more output. The input level control is not adjusting the amplifier, it is adjusting the signal going to a fixed gain amplifier. If the speaker is clipping then the input signal level is probably at or past the maximum the speaker input or internal amplifier supports and you may already be getting the maximum output. Depending on the level the speaker input is intended to take versus that the other equipment can deliver, it would not be unusual to not be able to run the input at full volume.

Just for an example, I looked at some of the Carvin amplifiers and they all have a specified sensitivity of 1.0V. The sensitivity for an amplifier is the input level that will produce full output and input levels greater than that provide no benefit in terms of output and typically need to be attenuated. 1.0V is about 2.2dBu, so there is a reasonable chance that the powered speakers will provide full output with somewhere around a 2.2dBu input level. In comparison, the mixer, BBE and comp/limiter all support +20dBu to +24dBu input and output signal levels. Thus if the clip light is reflecting the amp input or output clipping then it would not be surprising to see proper gain structure result in around 20dB of attenuation being required at the powered speaker inputs, which could explain why you can't turn up the input past 12:00 without getting clipping. That may not indicate anything wrong other than your trying to get more from the speakers than they can support. And that is why this can be so tricky, depending on the levels through the rest of the system, what you're seeing may be normal or not.