Control/Dimming Need help to find a decent light board

Would recommend you look at MagicQ if you want to stay with a PC based system. It works almost the same as the Hog range but also has support for media servers with thumbnails and also bitmap editor for controlling LEDs.

The software is free and fully functional. What makes it different from other PC systems is they make their money in optional wings with real faders encoders etc. They support USB to DMX converters from a lot of other companies. Can recommend the Entec Pro unit at about $120. The software will support 18 universes over Artnet or Pathport.

Very popular in Europe with schools and colleges due to the very low cost.

If I remember correctly PRG distribute the products in the US

www.chamsys.co.uk for MagicQ
www.enttec.com for dongle

Ziggy
 
I also want to second the previous opinon that maybe you just need to fix your existing system. There's nothing wrong with Horizon. It isn't always ideal but with the submaster panel it's a pretty slick system. I would start with a clean install on a fresh clean installed computer and see what happens.
 
If you can get the money, ditch the lightronics, and get an Ion or one of the new Strand Palettes. Don't get an Express, period. The Express line is NOT going to continue to be manufactured. It will be supported, because ETC is cool like that and they would still support Microvision. If you are familiar with Horizon, you might want to seriously look in the new Strand Palettes as they are built on the Horizon platform and may be familiar to you.

Actually, Spencer Lyons at the ETC Corp HQ backed up the claim to me that no matter what ETC will support all consoles, no matter their age. On top of that, they may not regularly manufacture a certain product but if you ask them to they will make you a console from the stone ages of their product lines.

However, that's not the point. Yes, it's a little late to purchase an Exresss console, but it's a budget console. You sound like me in my previous years. "I need this, but it's reasonble to spend $xxx to have this option I think we'll use eventually but maybe not."

From the tight budget you seem to have, if you have trouble buying a console after x amount of years, how would you ever be able to justify buying/renting moving lights? Making sure you don't bottleneck your future capabilities is important, but consider that there will always be a point when you have to draw a line.

The million dollar question is, what sort of a budget are you talking about? People can suggest the Light Palettes, and the Maxxyz, but it's like waving a steak just outside of the reach of a rottwieler if all it can do is tempt you.

My advice, is unless there are serious plans for implementation of moving lights, then don't be concerned about that being your motivator for what you want to purchase. Use the money you saved on something more practical.

Another thing you have to understand is that you shouldn't expect that you will be able to go to whomever is overseeing the financing of your new console and tell them it's going to cost $20k and get a good reaction out of them.
 
Actually, Spencer Lyons at the ETC Corp HQ backed up the claim to me that no matter what ETC will support all consoles, no matter their age. On top of that, they may not regularly manufacture a certain product but if you ask them to they will make you a console from the stone ages of their product lines.

However, that's not the point. Yes, it's a little late to purchase an Exresss console, but it's a budget console. You sound like me in my previous years. "I need this, but it's reasonble to spend $xxx to have this option I think we'll use eventually but maybe not."

From the tight budget you seem to have, if you have trouble buying a console after x amount of years, how would you ever be able to justify buying/renting moving lights? Making sure you don't bottleneck your future capabilities is important, but consider that there will always be a point when you have to draw a line.

The million dollar question is, what sort of a budget are you talking about? People can suggest the Light Palettes, and the Maxxyz, but it's like waving a steak just outside of the reach of a rottwieler if all it can do is tempt you.

My advice, is unless there are serious plans for implementation of moving lights, then don't be concerned about that being your motivator for what you want to purchase. Use the money you saved on something more practical.

Another thing you have to understand is that you shouldn't expect that you will be able to go to whomever is overseeing the financing of your new console and tell them it's going to cost $20k and get a good reaction out of them.

One problem you can get an Ion or a basic Palette for basically the same price as an Express right now... some have gotten quotes that are actually LOWER than an Express... so why get anything else?
 
If the price is lower for that then go for it. I haven't seen MSRP's on the palettes and Ion, but I didn't intend to defend the Express so much, as simply something low price. If that's a basic Palette, then it's a basic Palette. What I know is that it's not the Maxxyz Compact, or anything of that flavor.
 
If the price is lower for that then go for it. I haven't seen MSRP's on the palettes and Ion, but I didn't intend to defend the Express so much, as simply something low price. If that's a basic Palette, then it's a basic Palette. What I know is that it's not the Maxxyz Compact, or anything of that flavor.

There's been a lot of hearsay on this but the prices are similar. I'm going to see if I can get some hard prices to help with this discussion.
 
There's been a lot of hearsay on this but the prices are similar. I'm going to see if I can get some hard prices to help with this discussion.

It's so hard to track down even list prices. I was only able to find a British MSRP guide for Martin on the Maxxyz after about 20 minutes when I looked. Contacting dealers is a pain too because a lot don't want to release figures unless your serious about cutting a deal with them.

It'd actually be nice to get a list price thread going on lighting consoles if it's possible to track them down.
 
List pricing, by it's nature, is published and out there. Any dealer worth their salt, will be able to tell you list pricing on any console that it is published for. Now, there are consoles that are POA (Priced on Application.) Those consoles will need to be quoted from the factory. Any dealer can do it, but the factory will usually require a job name and location before they quote an actual price to a dealer.
 
The problem with creating a price list is that prices vary dramatically. A dealer who makes a lot of purchases from a specific manufacturer gets a better rate than a smaller dealer who only occasionally makes purchases. Then you get a different price rate depending on your relationship with the dealer and the total amount you are purchasing. If you are calling a dealer out of the blue to purchase a $5k product you aren't going to get nearly as good of a price as if you are purchasing a new board as part of a $100k package. You also aren't going to get as good of a deal as the person who has been spending a few thousand a year for 20 years at the same local dealer. Relationships with your local sales person can save you a lot of money.

So the end result is, you can pay anywhere from just a few percent under list to as much as 25% less than list... but your price isn't going to be the same as someone else's. For a simple example consider the price of 12 gauge SOOW cable. Ship once told me he pays less than $0.70 per foot for the stuff... but he buys thousands and thousands of feet a year from the same dealer. I called a local electrical supply store out of the blue and asked for a price. I was told over $2 per foot. As part of my recent $100k lighting package I got a 250' spool for $.76 per foot from a company that has an advertised price of $0.99 per foot.

So how much does it really cost? Like Jmabray said, call your local dealer. We can easily get some list prices... but what how much that is worth is really questionable.
 
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Actually, Spencer Lyons at the ETC Corp HQ backed up the claim to me that no matter what ETC will support all consoles, no matter their age. On top of that, they may not regularly manufacture a certain product but if you ask them to they will make you a console from the stone ages of their product lines.

I think that is what I said. The Express is not a production line consoles anymore, however they will support it until there are none left. I have also heard that ETC will build any old console on request.
 
I think that is what I said. The Express is not a production line consoles anymore, however they will support it until there are none left. I have also heard that ETC will build any old console on request.

Yeah it sounds like even though they are technically "discontinued" ETC will happily take your money and build an Express(ion) console for you, but you are going to pay about the same as an Ion. I just confirmed with one of our resident ETC folks that the list price for an Ion without a fader wing is slightly less than an Express 48/96. An Ion with a fader wing should cost somewhere in between an Express 72/144 and an Expression 250. I love using an Express as much as the next guy but why would you pay the same price for 15 year old technology? It's time to move on and leave the 2 scene preset world behind.
 
Just heard back from my Strand Rep so here is the full price deal.

For a simple installation in my opinion the clear winner is the Basic Palette it's got 16 submasters and 100 channels and list priced $500 more than an Express 24/48. You can also purchase a 512 channel upgrade later if you expand your system.

For larger installations the two models of Strand Preset Palettes are both list priced within a few hundred of the Express presets. Ion with a fader wing comes in slightly higher priced than Strand and is in the same price range as the larger Express and Expression boards.

Over all street price you are likely to pay for these consoles will be somewhere in the low $4000's to around $10,000 depending on the dealer, the size of the package you are buying, and how many extras you are going to buy. Again you need to just call your local rep and get a price. You can get a great basic system with the latest technology for under $5,000 and a killer setup with all the bells and whistles for around $10,000. Ion and Palette are both excellent options with different approaches. So be sure to test drive both of them and see what fits your needs best.
 
themusicman,

For the moeny, it is tought to beat the new ETC Ion. The board is a fully tracking board handling no less than two universes, capable of tracking, handling moving lights (and doing levels without a separate moving light display!), and the board is currently priced at around 5K which is less than several of the other console which do not have this advanced functionality. Even with the additional submaster wing the price is comparable to an Express, but there is much much greater capability. With lighting being an ever expanding filed with ev er greater needs of our control devices you would be remisss not to take a look.
 
themusicman,

For the moeny, it is tought to beat the new ETC Ion. The board is a fully tracking board handling no less than two universes, capable of tracking, handling moving lights (and doing levels without a separate moving light display!), and the board is currently priced at around 5K which is less than several of the other console which do not have this advanced functionality. Even with the additional submaster wing the price is comparable to an Express, but there is much much greater capability. With lighting being an ever expanding filed with ev er greater needs of our control devices you would be remisss not to take a look.

I agree, but if you don't even have that budget, Leprechon and Zero88 consoles have come a long way and for about 1/2 the cost. I'm not saying that they are without limitations, they have quite a few, but bean counters as they are. . .

Don't go with a used Strand console. While I think the 500 series are still good consoles, obtaining parts can be quite difficult. Strand often calls up companies that they know have spare parts to see if they would be willing to sell them back. Once those parts are gone, good luck (and by the time you need them). I'm glad to hear ETC will maintain their old consoles.

However, earlier on, there was discussion about new dimmers as well. It doesn't matter how good of a console you get if you can't rely on your dimmers. Get the ETC rack if at all possible. Don't trust the Lightronics gear, it wears poorly, becomes great doorstops.
 
Just a point of info about Compulite. I have a Compulite Micron 4D console that I purchased off of ebay, and was the main board at the Stardust Casino in Las Vegas. As you know the casino was imploded about a year ago and everything was auctioned before the demolition. The board new, sales in the 30k plus, and I got it for less than 10% of that price. I really love the board and it's capabilities are incredible. Having only ever heard of the Inovator made by Compulite, I started doing some serious searches of where these boards were located through out the world. It seems that the compulite consoles,(and there are many models) are primarily in several countries where they have an aggressive sales distribution. Many of the former "iron curtain countries" have them, several scandinavian countries and some major houses in Australia and England. Their presence in the US is scarce, and all of the purchases go through one distriutor in south Florida.
This last year at LDI, I spent several hours talking to the owner and chief designer and playing with several of their high end boards (Vectors) and their low end theatre board the D-lite. Design wise they are one of the most incredible boards on the market. Their boards fall into three different categories: Theatre boards (d-lite), concert boards Vector and Rave) and combination theatre and concert (Micron and Ovation). All of that said, I would take a Vector over a Vista or Grandma or Hog any day and a D-lite over any of the strand or ETC theatre style boards except, and it is a very big except, service on these boards in the US is almost nonexistant. The board is made in Israel, and most serious repairs require sending it or part of the console to Israel for service. Too bad, as it is a very superior product that just hasn't found much popularity in the US.
 

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