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Design Issues and Solutions Need Help with Requested Gel Numbers

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by willbb123, Feb 4, 2009.

  1. willbb123

    willbb123 Active Member

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    So we have a concert coming up and on the rider they have requested colors. The problem is, they only gave me numbers. I'm thinking most of the numbers are Rosco, but 104 is a frost.
    I've attached all the information I know. The groups are rock, R&B, Soul music.

    Also I am more of a theater LD. I am used to theater plots, not rock plots. I think I've got it figured out. Since there isnt a key, it would be great if someone could decode it for me;).

    Any help would be great. Then I get the fun job of finding the colors in our stock gel, because I can not buy any new gel... :evil:

    Thanks
     

    Attached Files:

  2. ScaredOfHeightsLD

    ScaredOfHeightsLD Active Member

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    This may seem simple, but is it possible to contact either the touring Lighting Director/Designer or someone else on the tour that may know and ask for confirmation on their Gels? I wouldn't want to assume it's Rosco, although it likely is. Better to be safe than sorry.
     
  3. willbb123

    willbb123 Active Member

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    Yea I could do that... But I thought this way would be more fun:). Yea I probably will talk to my production manager at our next meeting. But I like to plan as far ahead as I can, especially because I cant order new gel.
     
  4. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    Hmmmm...
    Apollo Gel's all have four digits
    Rosco Roscolux doesn't make a 180 or 158
    Rosco E-color doesn't make a 34 and 49
    Lee filters doesn't make a 34, 49 or 90
    Gam doesn't have any numbers below 100.

    That's all the Gel manufacturers. I think it's time to call the band and ask them what brand they are using because it doesn't seem to exist.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2009
  5. TimMiller

    TimMiller Well-Known Member

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    I have learned some LD's use several manufactuers but they dont tell you who. I hate it when people dont put the manufactuer name.
     
  6. NickJones

    NickJones Active Member

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    Have you considered ordering a gel chart, I have a Rosco one with a small bit of each of there gels in each one, that way you could show it to them and ask what type it is. I think they are either free or quite cheep, but really usefull.
    Nick
     
  7. iLightTheStage

    iLightTheStage Active Member

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    Personally I would assume:
    R34 Flesh Pink
    R22 Deep Amber
    R27 Medium Red
    119 could be either Rosco (Light Hamburg Frost) or Lee (Dark Blue)
    L180 Dark Lavender
    R49 Medium Purple
    L158 Deep Orange
    90 in Rosco or Lee is a Dark Yellow Green

    Spots:
    R33 No Color Pink
    R57 Lavender
    68 is Sky Blue for both Rosco and Lee (but I think that's dark for a spotlight)
    R26 Light Red

    You really should check with them to get clarification. However, if it is a small band, usually, as long as you're in the ball park for the colors, you are probably just fine. Plus, the above list includes a lot of "standard" rock colors.
     
  8. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    [user]ilightthestage[/user] is right in that it's most likely a combination of Roscolux and Lee as those are the two most commonly used product lines. His color guesses also make a lot of sense but I would hate to guess a color or two wrong and have an angry band to deal with.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2009
  9. len

    len Well-Known Member

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    That plot looks like a certain 70's disco band I have worked for on occasion. If the LD is the same as the last time, he's looking for a lot of good color saturation, so 104 is a Lee # and most of the rest in the 20 - 90 range are Rosco. If you use an Apollo v. a GAM or Lee and it's close, he'll be fine with it (again, if it's the same band and the same LD as I'm thinking of).
     
  10. waynehoskins

    waynehoskins Active Member

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    Knowing nothing else, I too would assume Lee for the 100s and Rosco for the others. But it's still confusing enough that I'd call the guy to confirm.
     
  11. SteveB

    SteveB Well-Known Member

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    I see this all the time and ilighthstage is correct, so:

    22,34,27,49,90 are all Rosco. Spots are Rosco as well.

    104,119,158,180 are Lee

    Makes sense in terms of where on the plot they get used.

    If you can't contact anybody, I wouldn't sweat over it too much as should you just go with the info. provided, you can always fall back on "No color manufacturer info. was provided".

    Steve B.
     
  12. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    I agree. iLightTheStage is absolutely accurate. So are the other posts that say the designer should have included more information. Is it SO difficult to add a Color Call or the prefixes "R" and "L" to each color number? Perhaps the designer will learn that; when the he/she gets to a venue and finds Lt. Hamburg Frost instead of Dark Blue, and Tough Silk instead of Deep Amber, in his ParCans.:evil:
     
  13. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    That would be awesome but don't stop there! Throw in some Gam and E-color as well! :twisted:
     
  14. Jeroen

    Jeroen Member

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    Rosco E-colour almost matches Lee colors so adding L (for Lee or Rosco E-Colour) or R (for Roscolux or Rosco supergel) would make sense and avoid confusion between dark blue or hamburg frost. Although I agree with SteveB above that probably most are Roscolux except 104,119,158,180 are Lee or Rosco E-Colour (resulting in deep amber, light blue, deep orange, dark lavender)
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2009
  15. willbb123

    willbb123 Active Member

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    Thanks for all the help. As much as I like the idea of having random frost on stage, I am on my own for this show. The tour manager literally said "We don't travel with an LD so just make it look good and no haze."

    So here is what I figured out before I asked the question.
    R22 - Dark amber [2 full sheets + a half dozen cuts in stock)
    R27 - Medium Red [4 full sheets + a few cuts in stock)
    R34 - Flesh Pink [Only 5 cuts in stock, also a few cuts of L107 in stock. May have to use our scrollers for this one.]
    R49 - Medium Purple [Nothing in stock. But its in our scrollers]
    R90 - Dark Yellow green [Only 2 cuts :rolleyes: but its in our scrollers]
    L104 - Deep Amber [None in stock but in scrolls]
    L119 - Dark Blue [No L119 in stock but have 2 sheets of R85. Also our similar color in the scrolls]
    L158 - Deep orange [No lee in stock. Have 4 sheets of R21. Plus similar in scroll]
    L180 - Dark Lav [No lee but have a sheet of R56 in stock]

    So my my task now is figuring out how many S4's I want to have color in them. I will load our 8 scrollers with our Apollo Rock and Roll color scrolls. So all I really need static color for is front light (I'm thinking about putting 2 scrollers FOH as front light), light to mix with the scrolls, also light when I change the scrolls.

    I am going to have limited time in the stage with the lights and color up. Normally I would just play around till I got a combination that I like. If anyone feels up to it, what would be the best combination of color to place in the S4's. I don't want you to design the show for me. But because of the limited time, I would like to make a more educated decision then just putting up the gel that I have most of.

    The scrollers have the following colors in them.
    A5400 Rock 'n Roll Green
    A5500 Neptune Blue Green
    A4950 Caribbean Blue
    A4200 Bright Blue
    A4250 Apollo Blue
    A4450 Heavenly Blue
    A3900 Voodoo Lavender
    A3700 Groovy Grape
    A3150 Sour Grape
    A8750 Hot Pink
    A8350 Bludgeon Red
    A8300 Diva Red
    A7450 Golden Amber
    A7600 Apollo Orange
    A6400 Pilsner Yellow

    BTW I only have S4's, no pars. I've got plenty of spare instruments, and twofers. I have every intent on hanging the electric as heavy as possible.]

    I'd like any advice I can get, this is my biggest concert so far and will be the biggest for a while. At this point I'm kinda using this thread to bounce ideas and gather my thoughts into one spot.
     
  16. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    Sounds like a plan.

    Also a question: Should Apollo gel be marked APxxxx or Axxxx? I would say AP, as that is how it is in the swatch book.
     
  17. SteveB

    SteveB Well-Known Member

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    2 key quotes

    "The tour manager literally said "We don't travel with an LD so just make it look good and no haze."

    "Normally I would just play around till I got a combination that I like"

    In this situation, the Tour Manager has essentially left it up to the house staff (you) to "make it look good", with the plot and hookup as guidlines as to what a prior LD has done for this artist, with anybodies guess if it was appropriate or useful to the LD.

    I would generally then use the color palette as a guideline and would change it to my own preferences (possibly R312 doubled in place or L104, which is too amber for my taste, as example). One reason I would take the initiative to change to what works for me, is that I'm the LD and I know what works in my house. An example of this, is my FOH - 24 S4 ellipsoidals, is not 60 PARs, thus the L180, L118 and R22 and R27 would not get used, as they would not punch sufficiantly to warrent adding to the plot.

    Compounding the issue is that 90% of the time, I have no clue as to the set list and probably don't know the artists music real well in any case. I have at times gone and listened to a certain artist ahead of time, but the reality is, unless you are the everyday LD, there is no way you can design for stuff whose timing may change and you never really remember the song progression unless you hear it over and over and over.

    Thus, if I were in your shoes, I'd design to get most of the suggestions, changing to variations you prefer or are comfotable with (or have in stock), especially given particular equipment selections and limitations.

    Then make it up as you go along like the rest of us, remembering that the act is not touring with an LD to save themselves money, hoping that by getting you to do it, they can all make a bit more. Thus if somebody complains, remind them that it's a freebie ! .

    Steve B,
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2009
  18. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    Have to agree with SteveB that you've been given license to substitute the way you feel is right. They gave you a poorly written guideline so you know about what they expect. Don't worry too much about matching the past just make it look good. If they were that worried first off they would have a the gel manufactures labeled and secondly they would have an LD traveling with them.
     
  19. willbb123

    willbb123 Active Member

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    So your saying I'll have to design the show? Oh I guess I can do that ;-)
    Does anyone know what the letters mean on the light plot? N, ACL, and M
     
  20. waynehoskins

    waynehoskins Active Member

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    Narrow, ACL, and Medium -- lamp types in PAR units.

    ACLs being Aircraft Landing lamps, the super-super-super narrow beam and lower voltage filaments wired in series and all that.
     

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