Need some advice on LED's

LilKB24

Member
Hello. I am a technical theatre teacher at a high school and I am preparing to order some new lighting equipment for the theatre. My original grant was written for 4 elation design pro washes, 2 elation power spot 700's, and a element console. I am found out I am also able to maybe get 2 of the selador vivid-R 11" fixtures. Now here's my problem, Our grid at the theatre is fixed about 30-35ft. I was wondering if the equipment on the order, specifically the design wash pro's would be worth getting. Or should I only get two of them and maybe get a few more vivid's? I have done some research but to be honest the whole Lumens X meters thing confuses me a bit. I want to get maximum color and flexibility for the stage while trying to keep the kids learning on current industry standards (Or as close to it as I can afford).

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
 
Not sure about the grant thing, but dont you need to actually buy what you ask for? Not sure how that works. Anyhow, how big is your stage? Is it possible for you to just get 1 more of the wash and 1 more of your spot units? That might be better, if you have a ton of conventionals already. If you dont, it sounds like you have roughly 3k to spend, at which point I would buy 30 VNSP PARs (or MFLs if you prefer) or if you need more dimming, work on that. Otherwise, if you dont just want to get one of each more, get 2 more spots. I dont think that having 2 Selador Vivid 11" units is really going to be what you want. If you dont have any conventional lighting, then maybe you might want to spend as much money as you can get out of the grant on that??
 
Reading the specs on the Design Pro and the Selador - let me try to point out the differences.

What all of this probably means to you.
  • If you intend to use the units to light faces, the Selador will give you MUCH better results. If you want to us it for down light or back-lighting only the Elation will be adequate ( but more limited than the Selador would be).
  • The Selador will not move.
  • IMHO for theatre work, the white circuit is minimally useful. I have some RGBAW units and I use the white circuit almost not at all.
  • To compare beam sizes and brightness. - Elation at 25 feet ( not using the white circuit) gives a circle 18 feet wide - and 77 foot candles of light. The Elation ( at smallest beam ) gives you a 7 foot beam with 126 foot candles. If you put in a lens that gives you the same beam spread as the elation unit, you would get about 20 FC from the selador.

So as usual, the decision is based on what you are trying to do. I would not use the Elation units to try and light faces. I would not buy just a few seladors. ( blending them with other systems is difficult). Do you really want movers - or just LED control?

Think about what you are going to do with the units - where they will be placed. Do a light plot in your head for the next show with the Design Pros's and another with the Seladors. Which one works better?

Good luck.
John
 
Not to burst your bubble, but the standard piece of advice from the CB staff on this topic is that most high schools have no business buying movers. The exception would be the high school that has a LOT of concerts and other musical events going on AND a trained adult technician on staff to maintain them and train students to use them. High schools who just need a mover once a year for a musical would be far wiser to save their money and rent. You are talking about what $25,000 here. That's a LOT of rentals. Who is going to maintain them? Who is going to program them? Movers are cool but the amount of programming time needed to make them useful is a real drag on the average high school theater program.
Who will pay for the new lamps for those powerspots? Looks like those lamps run about $250 each. With only a 750 hour life, that get's ugly quick.

On the other hand for that $25,000 you could buy SIX (maybe more) 42" Selador's. Don't want strip lights, look into Seachanger XG's or Seachanger Nemos. It's amazing what having some quick color changing ability does to your wash. These are tools you can use for EVERYTHING. Down light, cyc light, back light, front light. You can put them anywhere and have infinite color at the touch of a button. You don't need days to program an event AND the maintenance is significantly less.

Also don't forget the haze. Do you have a hazer and/or can you use a hazer in your space? The vast majority of cool lighting effects from a hazer are pretty much worthless without a hazer. No Haze, no cool shafts of light spinning in the air. Many high schools have problems buying, maintaining, and even getting permission to use hazers due to smoke alarms and local codes.

Food for thought.
 
LilKB24, what lighting inventory do you currently have for this space? This may give us an idea if there are a few 'gaps' in the current rig-
 
LilKB24, what lighting inventory do you currently have for this space? This may give us an idea if there are a few 'gaps' in the current rig-

Thanks for all of the helpful information everyone. I have roughly $25,000 to spend. My current inventory is approximately 60+ lekos (10, 26, 36, 50 degrees), 15-20 fresnels, 12 source four pars, 4 I-cue mirrors, 10 scrollers, express console, film efx.

The way the grant is written I have to use this money for purchase (I would much rather rent though). I hear you on the maintenance issue gafftaper, this is the same reason I refuse to purchase anymore wireless body mics (despite the drama teachers insistence). The grant is written to be used to purchase equipment that helps the students to keep up with current industry technology.

I am not a lighting designer but due to lack of funds I am being asked to handle it as well as sound design and everything else that comes with being a TD at the high school (not uncommon at all I'm sure).
 
Not to burst your bubble, but the standard piece of advice from the CB staff on this topic is that most high schools have no business buying movers. The exception would be the high school that has a LOT of concerts and other musical events going on AND a trained adult technician on staff to maintain them and train students to use them. High schools who just need a mover once a year for a musical would be far wiser to save their money and rent. You are talking about what $25,000 here. That's a LOT of rentals. Who is going to maintain them? Who is going to program them? Movers are cool but the amount of programming time needed to make them useful is a real drag on the average high school theater program.
Who will pay for the new lamps for those powerspots? Looks like those lamps run about $250 each. With only a 750 hour life, that get's ugly quick.

On the other hand for that $25,000 you could buy SIX (maybe more) 42" Selador's. Don't want strip lights, look into Seachanger XG's or Seachanger Nemos. It's amazing what having some quick color changing ability does to your wash. These are tools you can use for EVERYTHING. Down light, cyc light, back light, front light. You can put them anywhere and have infinite color at the touch of a button. You don't need days to program an event AND the maintenance is significantly less.

Also don't forget the haze. Do you have a hazer and/or can you use a hazer in your space? The vast majority of cool lighting effects from a hazer are pretty much worthless without a hazer. No Haze, no cool shafts of light spinning in the air. Many high schools have problems buying, maintaining, and even getting permission to use hazers due to smoke alarms and local codes.

Food for thought.

I do have a hazer and a smoke machine. I forgot to mention those.
 
Sounds like you have a pretty good inventory and all your bases covered. Having been a high school teacher I understand the issues of getting one time big grant money but having no regular budget to rent. It also sounds like the question of who is going to buy those $250 lamps every other year is still a problem. You definitely need to upgrade your console. I love ETC products but at the same time remain a very happy Strand Classic Palette owner so I encourage you to check them out too. You are in the position to get good demos. Get them!

I still say you are going to find you use a bunch of Seledor strips or Selecon XG/Nemos a lot more than the Elation gear. If you have a bunch of ETC Ellipsoidals in that inventory you can turn around 14 of them into color changers and still have $5k for a new console. Plus the Seledors and/or Selecons are a long term more reliable product than the Elations.

I'll shut up now.
 
Sounds like you have a pretty good inventory and all your bases covered. Having been a high school teacher I understand the issues of getting one time big grant money but having no regular budget to rent. It also sounds like the question of who is going to buy those $250 lamps every other year is still a problem. You definitely need to upgrade your console. I love ETC products but at the same time remain a very happy Strand Classic Palette owner so I encourage you to check them out too. You are in the position to get good demos. Get them!

I still say you are going to find you use a bunch of Seledor strips or Selecon XG/Nemos a lot more than the Elation gear. If you have a bunch of ETC Ellipsoidals in that inventory you can turn around 14 of them into color changers and still have $5k for a new console. Plus the Seledors and/or Selecons are a long term more reliable product than the Elations.

I'll shut up now.

Just thinking here, how much is a Seachanger running nowdays? Could you get like 20 or so for 25 grand? That might be a much better investment than LEDs, because you can stick gobos in them too... Plus, those are used all the time profesionally, so its not a bad idea to keep them around?
 
The grant is written to be used to purchase equipment that helps the students to keep up with current industry technology.

I am not a lighting designer but due to lack of funds I am being asked to handle it as well as sound design and everything else that comes with being a TD at the high school (not uncommon at all I'm sure).

You are in good company here, as the economic pinch has provided plenty of opportunities (read- stress) for educators to brush up on their technical theater skills. We truly feel your pain.

In keeping the students involved with industry technology- providing a Right Arm @ stage right and stage left would allow your students to pan and tilt a variety of today's (and tomorrow's) lighting/audio products. A moving mirror is great for controlling a beam of light, but you may consider the possibility of repositioning LED fixtures, LCD projectors, video cameras, smoke machines, directional loudspeakers and other devices- which allow the students to think outside the normal A+B=C box.
I've recently been working with a gentleman at a large amusement venue who is placing a number of Sanyo LCD projectors on Apollo Right Arm devices to provide a unique visual experience.

Just a thought, not a pitch-
 

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