Need Soundboard Advice?

Yes, custom layers is wonderful.
It's very apparent because any fader can have any function. So I can have inputs mixed with DCAs and output faders, all on the same layer, right next to each other. This is really helpful because I personally hate controlling the reverb return and love that I can assign the reverb send to a DCA and put it right next to all my vocals.

My recollection on the X32 is you can only adjust layer functions in banks of 8.
Technically it's still banks of 8, but you can redefine what inputs are in that bank. I could make a bank that pulls Local 1&2, AES50-A 12&3, Card 1, 7, and 26, and Talkback 1. When I flip fader banks those 8 will all move together, but I can define them to be any 8 inputs.

Your example of mixing in DCA's is valid- the User Banks only work for inputs, and there's not a way to do the same with outputs.
 
it feels very clunky and limited, not to mention I seem to have consistent issues with DANTE.

I agree on clunkiness of the TF, but they have always been rock solid with Dante for me. Yamaha knows their stuff when it comes to Dante. Not to derail the thread but what issues do you have?

What I dislike about the M32 for "Theater" is the lack of a custom fader layer, and only being able to keep 16 inputs on the layer at a time. There are some workarounds for this, a piece of software linked on these forums that allow easy programing of channels in to DCA's to be cued up, but trying to solve problems that don the SQ doesn't have :) .

Can I ask what you use the custom fader layer for as it relates to theater? I totally get why custom fader layers are great when I do commercial gigs but I'm always so curious about why this feature is a make-or-break for certain people in theater and how folks use it in their workflows - I've only done 1 major show in recent memory that was made legitimately better by the use of a custom fader layer (like I was the good kind of shocked when I took over the mix and saw how the custom fader banks were programmed out on it). I can't say I've ever programmed a theater show and thought about touching the custom fader layers.

I primarily split time between DiGiCo and Yamaha CL/Rivage and in both worlds your entire console is a custom fader layer to an extent assuming you aren't mixing inputs and outputs. If I need quick access to an input during a show I just spill the DCA and 9 times out of 10 that does the trick but I'd love to hear your use-case and see if its something I need to be thinking more about.

As far as having reverb returns at your fingertips, seeing that you only have DCA's on the right side of the M32, I'd route the Reverb Return to the Main L/R so the master fader goes from being the most useless fader on the console to being useful and full of purpose, and then in turn route the Main L/R to the vocal bus (can the M32 even do this? I've done it on other consoles, I hate seeing a fader go to waste and a master fader is a waste of space in my workflow).
 
I agree on clunkiness of the TF, but they have always been rock solid with Dante for me. Yamaha knows their stuff when it comes to Dante. Not to derail the thread but what issues do you have?



Can I ask what you use the custom fader layer for as it relates to theater? I totally get why custom fader layers are great when I do commercial gigs but I'm always so curious about why this feature is a make-or-break for certain people in theater and how folks use it in their workflows - I've only done 1 major show in recent memory that was made legitimately better by the use of a custom fader layer (like I was the good kind of shocked when I took over the mix and saw how the custom fader banks were programmed out on it). I can't say I've ever programmed a theater show and thought about touching the custom fader layers.

I primarily split time between DiGiCo and Yamaha CL/Rivage and in both worlds your entire console is a custom fader layer to an extent assuming you aren't mixing inputs and outputs. If I need quick access to an input during a show I just spill the DCA and 9 times out of 10 that does the trick but I'd love to hear your use-case and see if its something I need to be thinking more about.

As far as having reverb returns at your fingertips, seeing that you only have DCA's on the right side of the M32, I'd route the Reverb Return to the Main L/R so the master fader goes from being the most useless fader on the console to being useful and full of purpose, and then in turn route the Main L/R to the vocal bus (can the M32 even do this? I've done it on other consoles, I hate seeing a fader go to waste and a master fader is a waste of space in my workflow).
That's the SQ too. Every layer is as custom as you want it except the master fader. I don't believe you can reassign that fader but you can duplicate it on any other fader. Also the talkback. You can use the talkback input as an additional input but you can't reassign the features that go along with the talkback channel onto another channel.

My usecase is instead of making scenes. I love scenes for many things but sometimes the rehearsal schedule of a production is too short to be able to program everything. Even the ability to duplicate any fader means I can have playback, reverb, band and DCAs on multiple pages depending on what scene I'm in.
Like I can use a 1to1 page for big talking scenes where I'm mixing a ton of line by line and just have the band DCA.
Then a lead vocal page where I have the leads plus most all the band inputs for songs.
 
I agree on clunkiness of the TF, but they have always been rock solid with Dante for me. Yamaha knows their stuff when it comes to Dante. Not to derail the thread but what issues do you have?



Can I ask what you use the custom fader layer for as it relates to theater? I totally get why custom fader layers are great when I do commercial gigs but I'm always so curious about why this feature is a make-or-break for certain people in theater and how folks use it in their workflows - I've only done 1 major show in recent memory that was made legitimately better by the use of a custom fader layer (like I was the good kind of shocked when I took over the mix and saw how the custom fader banks were programmed out on it). I can't say I've ever programmed a theater show and thought about touching the custom fader layers.

I primarily split time between DiGiCo and Yamaha CL/Rivage and in both worlds your entire console is a custom fader layer to an extent assuming you aren't mixing inputs and outputs. If I need quick access to an input during a show I just spill the DCA and 9 times out of 10 that does the trick but I'd love to hear your use-case and see if its something I need to be thinking more about.

As far as having reverb returns at your fingertips, seeing that you only have DCA's on the right side of the M32, I'd route the Reverb Return to the Main L/R so the master fader goes from being the most useless fader on the console to being useful and full of purpose, and then in turn route the Main L/R to the vocal bus (can the M32 even do this? I've done it on other consoles, I hate seeing a fader go to waste and a master fader is a waste of space in my workflow).
Wait, the person who wants to know about custom fader layers... is you?

I'm assuming what they mean is "custom DCA mappings", in practice, and I would assume you already know why that's good. :-}
 
I have this whole response planned in my head... and need a full size X/M32 to verify before I start writing... and all I have at home is an X32 Rack.

So not wanting to drive up to the shop, what I find in "user" accommodations (ROUTING screen) is some rather clever, under the hood stuff that allows nearly random signal routing of any physical input (XLR, expansion card, AES A/B) to an INPUT CHANNEL. There is also a toggle for user output routing as well, and I think I need to the outputs in X32 Edit to have a better understanding.

The concept of "anything on any fader" is one of the features that made the Soundcraft Si mixers popular, and obviously there are other manufacturers who make good use of it.

In mixing a musical or doing a live "throw and go" post-prod, having DCA groups or stems in the middle and re-routing inputs for spot pick ups, or returns to faders on either side of center would offer some unique possibilities without having to up the DCA count.
 
I will caution you on choosing a TF5 for theatre. I used one (actually recommended the theatre buy one). Functionally it has most of the features for a simple show, and it has those extra 8 channels over the other similar priced mixers. The killer is the lag time when changing scenes. It would take 3 - 5 seconds to fully recall each scene, excruciating when you're in the middle of a show. They improved it slightly with a software update, but I believe they're just at the limit of their processor.

We now have a QL5 with two TIO1608 racks and I'm not looking back!
 
Thank you guys for all of your answers and advice! Honestly, right now I'm not sure what's going to happen due to the inavailabliy of ANY damn sound boards. Every last one of the boards on my list (and any boards NOT on my list pretty much) are back-ordered past the end of the fiscal year, so I've got to go and meet with the business office and find out what my options are.
 
Can I ask what you use the custom fader layer for as it relates to theater? I totally get why custom fader layers are great when I do commercial gigs but I'm always so curious about why this feature is a make-or-break for certain people in theater and how folks use it in their workflows - I've only done 1 major show in recent memory that was made legitimately better by the use of a custom fader layer (like I was the good kind of shocked when I took over the mix and saw how the custom fader banks were programmed out on it). I can't say I've ever programmed a theater show and thought about touching the custom fader layers.
You May. So the last show I just ran this weekend was Sweeny Todd. It was run on a SQ6 with 24 'faders/handles' We utilized 20 body mics, and 12 orchestra mics, 2 stereo playback channels (one for SFX, the other for house music.)

I had Layer 1 set up with 1-20 body mics, DCA 1 (Leads), DCA 2 Ensemble, DCA 3 Band. The two playbacks where allocated to the soft rotaries and where really just used as mutes controls.

Layer 2, Had all of my Band inputs (largely untouched after setup), The two Stereo playback channels.

Now for the SQ vs the X32 when it comes to custom fader/layout. even though the X32 is a 24 fader console. I can never see more then 16 inputs at a time. I suppose I could modify the way I mix and teach students, but I very infrequently find a need for more then 4 DCA's when Theater. What I have greater need and desire is being able to keep all my body mics inputs on a single layer, for quick access, mute, and channel and fader control. My largest (re:eek:nly) gripe with the X32, is the the "BUSING" side of the console has no custom option. I've figured out ways to get 20 mics by individually assigning 4 inputs channels to DCA"s but it's seems silly.
 
You May. So the last show I just ran this weekend was Sweeny Todd. It was run on a SQ6 with 24 'faders/handles' We utilized 20 body mics, and 12 orchestra mics, 2 stereo playback channels (one for SFX, the other for house music.)

I had Layer 1 set up with 1-20 body mics, DCA 1 (Leads), DCA 2 Ensemble, DCA 3 Band. The two playbacks where allocated to the soft rotaries and where really just used as mutes controls.

Layer 2, Had all of my Band inputs (largely untouched after setup), The two Stereo playback channels.

Now for the SQ vs the X32 when it comes to custom fader/layout. even though the X32 is a 24 fader console. I can never see more then 16 inputs at a time. I suppose I could modify the way I mix and teach students, but I very infrequently find a need for more then 4 DCA's when Theater. What I have greater need and desire is being able to keep all my body mics inputs on a single layer, for quick access, mute, and channel and fader control. My largest (re:eek:nly) gripe with the X32, is the the "BUSING" side of the console has no custom option. I've figured out ways to get 20 mics by individually assigning 4 inputs channels to DCA"s but it's seems silly.
Now, the way they would *tell* you, I think, that they expect you to handle that is to break the show into french scenes, as mic'd characters or groups enter and leave, and have each scene map the first 6 of the 8 DCAs to lead mics, with 7&8 on Ensemble and Band, and then hit Go every time a character exits or leaves. If you don't have more than 6 *active* leads at any given moment, then Bob's your uncle (even though he was my dad...)

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And indeed, you could probably put band and chorus DCAs on twist knobs and have all 8 track soloists...

[ That guy's posted a bunch of those, but that was the number I figured the highest percentage of people here would know by heart, of all the stuff he had up. ]
 
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@Jay Ashworth. Absolutly. I'm not super practiced on the x32 to do such setup with the efficiency, and reliability in the 3-4 days of rehearsals that I have with the Highschool Groups. that amount to 3-4 performances. If I was running/setuping a regional theater show or a rep production that would absolutely be my go to solution. Is this the same guy that did a video on him mixing Legal Blonde?
 
So I've been talking to the nice people who are installing my new system...here's the backorder status of the various consoles...
Yamaha - End of October
Soundcraft - End of June
Behringer/Midas - End of June/July
Allan & Heath - End of August

Keeping all of that in mind, and taking into account the fantastic advice I've gotten here I think I'm going to go with the Midas M32. It seems to do what I need it to do, is within my budget & I can get it before the Fall semester starts. Thank you guys so much for your advice!! I'll let you know how it all works out once It's all installed.

(Just a note for those of you who were suggesting the Yamaha QL5...I want one SO much but it's not in the budget. I left one behind at my last theater in Virginia, and now it's buried under a collapsed roof. It was absolutely my first choice, I loved that desk!!)
 

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