New ETC Fixtures (Including ETC FRESNEL)

[gafftapegreenia]

Ahh, Les, so many good points. I HATE those 1KAF Fresnels, now that I can lamp a 65Q @ 575w, who needs em? The 65Q has got to be one of Altman's most profitable fixtures. Someone (if not Altman) will be making that thing till the end of the electrical grid.

Also, thanks for reminding me of Packaged Lighting Systems. I was trying to remember there name, as their website was still offering stepped lens ellipsoidals. Seems even the old website is gone now.

Now, ETC, make us a true, HPL CYC light, or make us some stripped lenses for the multipars

Ala a 50 Degree Spreader Rondel? If ETC won't, all we need is someone good with optics to design it, and then have Kopp Glass make it (Who wants to invest in a start up?)

 

[nffy212]

Production Advantage now has them listed on their site for $299

ETC Fres7 Source Four 7" Fresnel

 

[Les]

Ala a 50 Degree Spreader Rondel? If ETC won't, all we need is someone good with optics to design it, and then have Kopp Glass make it (Who wants to invest in a start up?)

Exactly. A spreader roundel, when installed in a S4 par or Multipar, would open up so many possibilities, I think. A rotatable, 50 degree spread. How 'bout it? Kopp Glass, I believe, does custom jobs but I'll bet it would be 'spensive given the price for just a 5 5/8 plain roundel these days.

PLS was an interesting company. They had some neat ideas and affordable equipment, there just didn't seem to be much demand. They began selling on eBay (to some success) before shutting their doors a few years ago. I think the company only employed a handful (the fixtures seemed simple, and were probably manufactured on basic metalworking equipment) and I think the company only made about $80,000 - $100,000 a year. Interesting trivia is that it was woman-owned. Their stepped lens ellipsoidals were interesting - like they waited for Century's patents to run out and then started manufacturing to the same design. Truly a blast from the past!
Seems that they had 3.5" ellipsoidals on eBay for about $45 each, though they were no more fancy than a rolled steel tube in design. One buyer's feedback I remember said something like "great price and much better quality than expected!". I bought one of their 3" $35 fresnels out of curiosity and while unique in design, I could see how it would be useful. Used a mini-can lamp up to 100w and didn't have the most even beam. The main drawback was an odd socket only held in place with some sort of aluminum shim. Seems that a standard mini-can socket with tabs for screws would have been better. Otherwise, sturdy little fixture; just needed a little improvement.

Sorry for the hijack... Back on topic!

 

[church]

Ahh, Les, so many good points. I HATE those 1KAF Fresnels, now that I can lamp a 65Q @ 575w, who needs em? The 65Q has got to be one of Altman's most profitable fixtures. Someone (if not Altman) will be making that thing till the end of the electrical grid.

Also, thanks for reminding me of Packaged Lighting Systems. I was trying to remember there name, as their website was still offering stepped lens ellipsoidals. Seems even the old website is gone now.



Ala a 50 Degree Spreader Rondel? If ETC won't, all we need is someone good with optics to design it, and then have Kopp Glass make it (Who wants to invest in a start up?)

you need the CODE V software and the optical engineer ( I think the S4 was designed using this software.

Optical Research Associates | CODE V Optical Design Software | Product page

we use it for all our optical design

 

[Lotos]

On to ETC's light -- interestingly the counterbalance yoke design is nothing new. I'm going to have a hard time backing this up, since the company is out of business, but Packaged Lighting Systems actually used a similar design on many of their fresnels and ellipsoidals. I believe it was a milled piece of aluminum with a slot down the middle, which allowed the yoke to be slid forward and backward, changing the overall balance of the fixture.

You'll find this on 1990's vintage Strand Lekolite 2206 Zoom's as well... They're honkin' great square monsters, the shutters fall out, the zoom is chunky, and they take up more room than a Berkey Colortran 5/50 on the Meat Rack... But hey, they balance nicely

 

[derekleffew]

...They also had these "pole focusing" lights which had some sort of a eye-bolt looking thing on the bottom. ...

Pole focusing Fresnels is nothing new or unique. Strand, Colortran, and the studio manufacturers Mole, Desisti, B&M, Arri all made or make them. Charc even found one by Strand in his HS, I think, but I can't find the thread. There was a different socket for pan, tilt, and focus. The problem is the length of the pole was limited to about 15'.

As for Packaged Lighting Systems, a while ago I sent ship a couple of their catalogs from the mid-60's. Eventually he will get them scanned, PDF'ed, and posted.

 

[techieman33]

You'll find this on 1990's vintage Strand Lekolite 2206 Zoom's as well... They're honkin' great square monsters, the shutters fall out, the zoom is chunky, and they take up more room than a Berkey Colortran 5/50 on the Meat Rack... But hey, they balance nicely

I like my 2206's. There is still nothing on the market with the range they have. Yeah they're big but that doesn't really matter when they stay on one of the front of house lighting bridges year round. The shutters are designed to come out, you'll notice the handle is angled, so you can flip the shutter to help you get the shutter cut you want. This was still pre rotating barrels and a feature I like. Ours zoom pretty smoothly, you just have to take care of the guides the lenses ride on.

 

[gcpsoundlight]

a guy from a local supplier came to class yesterday and showed us a "Selecon SPX" which he said was selecons equivilent to the source4, and that in blind tests it came out better on beam quality. so we pulled out our source4's, and the source4's, in my opinion, won. It also looked horrible.

 

[jglodeklights]

Well, it would really depend on what lens tubes we are comparing it to. I've worked with REVisions C and F (and I think a few G's, they are the newest, yes?) primarily of the S4 36degree, and quite frankly all of them suck. Very high aberrations and very high distortion and an edge that never really gets that crisp. Compared to my Altman Shakespeare S6 40 degrees, when properly cleaned, the S4 36 is marginally brighter, but doesn't have the crispness the Shakespeare has. Additionally, Shakespeare 20 degrees are as sharp as and lower on the aberrations than S4 19's I've seen. YUCK

 

[techieman33]

a guy from a local supplier came to class yesterday and showed us a "Selecon SPX" which he said was selecons equivilent to the source4, and that in blind tests it came out better on beam quality. so we pulled out our source4's, and the source4's, in my opinion, won. It also looked horrible.

The selecon units kick the source 4's ass, they're more expensive than a source 4 too.

 

[LXPlot]

I don't know. I saw some demo video of the new Selecon Lekos, and they really didn't seem to beat Source Fours in beam quality and definitely not in intensity. However, they seem to be just as good if not better in ease of hang and focus, and the scale for shutters on the side is nice. However, they aren't even close to as pretty or well marketed as Source Fours, so...

 

[soundlight]

The new LEKO LITE won't beat the Source Fours (I know that because we had a demo of the new LEKO LITE in our shop, it's just a rebranded Strand SL Coolbeam with a different lamp). However, the SPX truly has some potential, and I'd like to see it. It is more expensive, but I think that it could be a good fixture as far as beam quality and ease of use. (Not that I'll ever stray from my beloved Source Fours...)

 

[gcpsoundlight]

yeah. I mean, I did have some pro's with the selecon, but I love source4's, and everyone has them. these have only been out for a few months, whereas the source4 has been around for years. i dunno, just personal preference, I guess.

Though I absolutely will never use the Selecon Pacifics..... (Don't get me started! )

 

[icewolf08]

The Desire LED fixtures list around $1800. Apparently this is mostly due to paying for patent usage. They are pretty slick, especially the on-board mode that allows them to mimic the amber-drift of a 1Kw PAR as it dims and the mode that makes it mimic the filament ramp when bumped on or off. Useful? Maybe not all the time, but cool.

 

[chausman]

They are pretty slick, especially the on-board mode that allows them to mimic the amber drift of a 1Kw PAR as it dims and the mode that makes it mimic the filament ramp when bumped on or off. Useful? Maybe not all the time, but cool.

Cool, and could be useful when you have only a few Desires and a rig of pars that you wanted things to be consistent, although, one of the benefits of the LEDS is that they can change instantly and not have the slower ramp up and down. Lightning for instance.

 

[Blackfaer]

So it looks like the new S4 Fresnel is $299 typical street price, and the Parnel sells on the same sites at around $238. So is that a big enough difference? Or is the Parnel going to be fading away?

Whoever said they were surprised to see a standard Fresnel instead of some fancy new lens... apparently hasn't seen the PARnel lenses... or isn't aware of what happened when they DID enter into the Fresnel market with some fancy new lens....

Has anyone with experience with the Acclaim or Rama Fresnels gotten their hands on a S4 Fresnel? I'm curious... the Acclaim is 1/2 the price of a S4, and the Rama, which would be more the competition, is about 8% cheaper...

I have no Fresnels in my inventory. I'm looking at buying some... Is it worth my cash to spend up to a Rama, or a Source Four? Or is the Parnel still something to look at? (Personally, I don't mind Parnels at all, but I know a lot of people hate them)

 

[jglodeklights]

I have no Fresnels in my inventory. I'm looking at buying some... Is it worth my cash to spend up to a Rama, or a Source Four? Or is the Parnel still something to look at? (Personally, I don't mind Parnels at all, but I know a lot of people hate them)

When looking at purchase of new units, a major factor in looking at the purchase should be uniformity. One of the major advantages of a S4 Fresnel or Parnel is the HPL lamp being consistent across the range if you already have S4's. While at 10 lamps the price difference between a BTL and an HPL is almost negligible, if you can order a box of 50 HPL's and not have to stock BTL's you will save money over the long haul. Oh, and the lamps for Acclaims are bi-pin with BTL style filaments and quite a bit more expensive than BTL or HPL lamps, negating some cost savings over the long haul.

However, other side of uniformity is being able to create entire systems. The size of my theater's main stage means there are usually 3 acting areas left to right and 3 to 5 downstage to upstage. If I'm designing a show with 12 acting areas, my back/down light system will then require at least 12 identical units for uniformity between them. If I'm using two colors of down/back light, then I will want 24 to make a full system. That is $7200 worth of units. However, if I were designing for my college's main stage I would need at least 5 acting areas across and at least 4 deep, thus requiring 40 units for a uniform 2 color back/down light wash. That means $12000 worth of S4 Fresnels. Oh boi. That's almost twice as expensive to purchase!

Your needs will vary based on what you believe the intended use of the units will be and the size of your theater.

The other variance between a Fresnel and the PARNel is the zoom range. Fresnels typically go between 6 and 60 degrees, PARNels are more limited at 25-45 degrees. Adequate in many situations, but possibly problematic in some situations.

 

[Les]

Whoever said they were surprised to see a standard Fresnel instead of some fancy new lens... apparently hasn't seen the PARnel lenses... or isn't aware of what happened when they DID enter into the Fresnel market with some fancy new lens....

Ah yes, I believe that was me. I have in fact seen the Parnel lenses. I was just trying to be funny .

 

[theatreguy]

Holy cow, this is exciting. Shall have to start looking into replace the old Fresnels kicking around the theatre with these, allows for stocking a smaller assortment of bulbs and less disruption when changing bulbs. Very nice indeed!

 

[Footer]

Alright, its been awhile since this thread started...

Who has actually used this fresnel in an actual show environment? We are kicking around the idea of replacing 40 8" fresnels... is this thing worth it?