The above Ad will no longer appear after you Sign Up for Free!

New Fresnel Lamp

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by ship, Jul 21, 2008.

  1. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

    Messages:
    6,106
    Likes Received:
    387
    Location:
    Illinois
    Second attempt to post.

    A little over a year ago Controlbooth members asked about a new Fresnel lamp that would match up with modern Lekos. I presented the idea amongst others to some lamp companies and the Osram reps. took that project on. Last night I answered a message from a guest contact about him hearing this lamp existed and I carefully said it was on the way in not mentioning brands but was not on the market yet. Today I checked last week's PLSN product of the week and noted that the lamp asked for the BTH was just introduced at USITT 2008 and is now available. The product managers at Osram that asked me not to anounce until it came to market seemingly got a bit busy at the last minute and forgot to tell me the lamp that was late in coming was now on the market. This much less my sample lamps were now on the way once contacting them about that.

    Anyway, it's out, the lamps are available now.

    Saw the prototype for the lamp a few months ago and its going to set the world on fire. Due to market share needs for the company that got it done, I couldn't more than hint about it until now but it's a great lamp and long in coming.

    In noting the specs today, the only thing I noted about the lamp was it's base down to horizontal burning position, but on the other hand in a normal 65Q type fixture I would be more worried about a gel frame falling out of the fixture if other than that angle anyway. Still interesting that the GLC lamp this is based off of and even EGE are any burn position, this one is not and more similar to a BTL in that way.

    None the less, you get the matching color temperature, higher output for that voltage in being a high output 575w lamp. As noted if you want a long life version, stick with the BTL in that a GLA version would not gain much in efficiency over that of the BTL. Not quite as bright as a BTN 750w lamp, but higher color temperature than them all which will be important in seeming that way and in getting light seen on stage yet for less wattage.


    Good lamp, give it a try if wanting more output and can afford the 300hr/115v verses 2,000hr/120v difference between them or for even a top hat down light you want that glowing look. I see tremendous value in this lamp thus why I passed this great idea off this website onto the manufacturers. One manufacturer took Controlbooth up on that idea.

    This and I finally convinced one of my mentors/home stage TD's to play test the HPR Leko lamp for his 575w house. Again high output and a great lamp. If you want gobo accuracy, go GLC in theory because the HPR 575/115v lamp does them well also, but for overall beam of light - flat field that in a well bench focused 360Q you can out-punch a S-4 fixture, the HPR is much more fogiving a beam and more intense and better. This much less in a Shakesphere or other more optically modern fixture what it can do.

    Two lamps for high output I highly recommend in making the most of what they can for the reletive efficiencies of the fixtures they are installed in.

    Sub-note in chat, Will the new BTH out punch a ParNel? Answer is no persay in testing. The ParNel is more optically efficient. Hard to make the reflector of a Fresnel more efficient in putting out the light. ON the other hand for cost of fixture pricing, will it be more cost effective especially if you already own the normal Fresnel.... Yep, and it's gonna change your world.


    Hope it helps - it's out there now, you asked and got it.
     

    Attached Files:

    emac likes this.
  2. waynehoskins

    waynehoskins Active Member

    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    49
    Location:
    Arlington, TX
    Very very cool. It's about time for me to make a lamp order at the church anyhow; I might have to see if I can get a few of these to test.

    For a few years now I'd been wondering when this (575-watt BTR) would happen. Thanks!
     
  3. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    12,499
    Likes Received:
    2,481
    Occupation:
    Theater Manager & T.D.
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington
    Very cool Ship. Congrats on your little contribution to the theater world.
     
  4. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,401
    Likes Received:
    2,785
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Thanks, [user]ship[/user]. I never knew the stage lighting industry had been clamoring for a new lamp for the 65Q 6" Fresnel Spotlight--a design at least 35 years old.;)

    So let me get this straight. It's brighter than a
    BTL; 500W; 500 hour; 3000K; 11,000 lumens, LPW=22.0,
    BTH; 575W; 300 hour; 3250K; 15,500 lumens, LPW=27.0,
    but not as bright as a
    BTN; 750W; 500 hour; 3000K; 17,000 lumens, LPW=22.7,
    and no where close to a
    BTR; 1000W; 250 hour; 3200K; 28,500 lumens, LPW=28.5,
    ???

    Given the spherical reflector and purposefully diffused Fresnel lens, there's little to be gained from a lamp with a more compact filament design.

    I suspect my socks will remain safely on my feet, and my world will remain the same.:rolleyes:
     
  5. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

    Messages:
    6,106
    Likes Received:
    387
    Location:
    Illinois
    yes that's correct except that you cannot use a BTR in a normal 750w rated Fresnel and you didn't mention the color temperature difference which is what made modern Lekos what they are in "seeming brighter." What you say is more like the diffrerence the HPL/S-4 was stating in past years as "as bright" seemingly at least as that of a normal 360Q Leko with a FEL lamp. Concept is the color temperature even if less output makes it seem brighter. In testing, the GLA lamp seemed as bright as a EHG and that's important for concept this falls into.

    This now for a Fresnel in color temperature in now matching up with that of a Leko is a great concept. Possibly not right for all but should be a great thing to have - and Controlbooth did the origional idea for it.

    Also in sub-note, a Parnel is not a Fresnel in testing - different animal onto itself. Trick overall is the color temperature and with that your even 40 year old Fresnels now match up and that's the concept of this new lamp.

    Don't get anything from this lamp other than two free lamps to send to customers for play test in them buying more. Been designing long enough in the industry that I think this will be a great product and hope it takes off in being a great lamp for a great fixture.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2008
  6. church

    church Active Member

    Messages:
    451
    Likes Received:
    54
    Location:
    Canada
    I ordered a small quantity of these new lamps to try out. I want to confirm my suspicion that colour temp is the main factor in what people perceive as "brightness. I will try this out on a couple of other lighting guys without telling them and see if they notice. basically I agree with Ship on this the colour temp is key.

    By the way my supplier had received the datasheet in April and forgot about these lamps - I am the first person to order any. The price was $0.90 more than a BTL so not a big issue.
     
  7. church

    church Active Member

    Messages:
    451
    Likes Received:
    54
    Location:
    Canada
    I collected my order for six of the new BTH lamps today. I put one into a 6 inch Fresnel made by FE Lighting. I tried it alongside another of the same make of Fresnel with fitted with a BTL. I also put a source four next to it fitted with a HPL575. Sure enough you can see the colour temp difference compared against the fresnel with the BTL. And the colour temp is a good match to the S4. So Ship you achieved your goal it makes the fresnels a good match for the S4s and the extra light output is noticeable to the BTL.

    I will buy more of these.
     
  8. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,401
    Likes Received:
    2,785
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    IF the LE Lighting Six-Inch Fresnel Spotlight is listed for 1000W, the BTR is still the more efficacious lamp, providing 84% more lumens for 74% more watts. Bang for the buck, baby!, is what it's all about. Brighter, deeper, stronger, faster, harder. If its [sic] too loud, your [sic] too old!

    Anybody want to post results of a shootout between: ETC S4-ParNEL (HPL575/115); Altman 65Q (BTH), and Strand 12081 6" Fresnelite (BTR)? I know which my money's on.

    Just my 2¢.;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2008
  9. church

    church Active Member

    Messages:
    451
    Likes Received:
    54
    Location:
    Canada
    The FE Lighting 6 inch Fresnel is rated for 750W, it looks very much the same as a 65Q, the 65Q has a marginally better reflector but side by side you can't tell which is which on the stage. they were popular here in canada because they were made locally and were very competatively priced about 60% of the price of a 65Q. I agree about the BTR I have some 1kW 6 inch Fresnels also from FE lighting (bigger lamp housing) and they will always out perform the BTH. However the problem I have is I am usually limited by electrical power as I am using this equipment in various venues, rarely in a theatre. So the 575W lamp with the extra performance helps tremndously. I also use the GLC lamps for the same reason in my ellipsoidals. In truth they perform better than the FEL anyway in my strand, colortran and CCT fixtures.
     
  10. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

    Messages:
    6,106
    Likes Received:
    387
    Location:
    Illinois
    .

    Hmm, very interesting concept. Sort of takes us back to the HX-600 verses FEL debate with Lekos. The HX-600 (FLK) verses FEL debate following the S-4 and the GLA, GLC and HPR lamps sort of got lost in the industry other than for a few less advanced species in sticking to the FEL lamps.

    Yes, the FEL and no doubt without checking notes and doing conversion charts, the BTR would overpower in output that of the BTR I would suspect in overall luminous output. Way back when I did some calculations and figured out that the FLK was only about in actual boosted by voltage output putting out about 800w worth of light not 1,000 Watts worth of light. The makeup for it and S-4 fixtures was the boosted color temperature of the lamp at that lower voltage in “seeming brighter.” I suspect any fixture lamped with the BTR would be the same.

    Onto brass tacks. I know my Altman 1KAL 6" Fresnel has a slightly smaller beam spread also than a 65Q but have not done research into the Strand 6" Fresnel in it’s beam and field angle photoptics. If narrower field this would be hard to accurately confirm in brightness both actual luminous output and color temperature. If on the other hand for the most part similar this would be a good question to ask. This beyond the main point of concept four fixtures per dimmer verses only two with a 1Kw lamp and energy conservation which was also a part of why the 575w/115v lamps won the war against the 1Kw lamps in Leko’s. Also, optically that of the FEL and BTR lamps are much larger filament square areas than that of the new lamp meaning more light gets accurately out thru the more point source filament than with the older lamps. Better efficiency of filament does eek out that extra wattage better.

    Should anyone wish, I do have both color temperature and luminous output light meters at work and a screen to project aganst at bench focus range. I do not currently have a 65Q in stock but could get one. I also don’t have the Strand fixture in stock and won’t be getting one. PARnel I do have in stock. If someone wants to send me the Strand fixture in question for a test, I could do the new lamp for all study in question accurately and un-biast. Since the 1KAL Altman fresnel won’t be an accurate test sample that won’t be valid in testing.

    Overall, I think the above concepts. The new lamp will be higher in color temperature and seem as bright as the 1Kw lamp. On the other hand, the concept in going 575w/115v was not to replace the BTR but more to match up with other 575w/115v lamps already in use. Yes you can go BTR - big waste of energy. Will even the audience be sufficiently fooled or satisfied by the BTH in similar intensity?

    Beyond this, Yep, the PARnel is not the Fresnel but fair enough in total field testing of output. Heck, for the test I can also throw in some Altman 1K Studio Fresnels.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice