New High School Install

[Esoteric]

Two good choices in getting the Smartpacks and getting the power set up now.

The PARnels it depends on what effect you are going for. I have pictures, but you get a different effect if you cluster all of them together than you will if you put them at opposite ends of the truss (known as pipends), than if you space them out evenly. There is a place for each of them.

As far as the Jrs I might be a little concerned about the throw distances you are covering to go with that particular unit. Have you thought about going with fewer traditional Source4's rather than more Jrs?

Mike

 

[derekleffew]

So, I've decided to go with the ETC SmartPack dimmers. They were around $1800 for 12/1.2kw. I can live with that price.

I gave the specs to our electrical engineer and told him I wanted the capabilities to install 10 of them. Will we ever get there, probably not, but I'd rather have more than enough power than not enough. ...

So you originally had spec'd 48x2.4kW dimmers and are now looking at a maximum, at some time in the future, of 120x1.2kW dimmers?

Note that there are some "unseen" costs associated with installing packs vs. racks, including materials such as an enclosure and additional branch feed circuits, and more labor involved.

Regardless of the manufacturer, I don't like non-modular dimmer packs in a permanent installation.

 

[cw4u]

Yeah. I had originally spec'd out for electrical purposes a Sensor rack. But, I just don't have the money for that. And never will probably. Sure, I wish I did, but I had to sacrafice somewhere.

I'll use the S4 Jrs for closer side lighting. Throw distances should be fine on those. S4s will be used to do larger throws. So, I should be good.

Should I still use the 100 foot candles for a good stage spot? Or should I get more?

Thanks.

 

[Esoteric]

I don't either, but for some the $200 per dozen dimmers can be hard to resist. Plus you have to have a wall to mount it to (which sometimes is harder than you might think).

Of course you are going to spend $250 or so for a rack to install 3 or 4 packs in (each takes two rack spaces), so you are really only saving $550 per 4 packs you install.

You are correct that you will also increase your cost by going from 48 circuits to 120 circuits, although you can spread them out more (and circuit boxes are not that expensive).

Although I always tell my clients to invest in infrastructure first some just refuse to put out the cost all at once.

Mike

Edit: You don't have to get Sensors. There are ETC SmartRacks as well (which are the same technology as the Smartpack but in a permanent wall mount package).

 

[Esoteric]

100 fc is all relative. I have lit stages with as little as 60fc (and had good visibility) and I have had to go higher than that (particularly for video). 100 fc should be plenty though.

Mike

 

[gafftaper]

Strand gear is of significantly higher quality and cost than Leprecon or Elation. They were the industry standard for a long time before ETC took over the market. Consider that it is only recently that companies like Cirque du Soleil have begun switching from Strand to ETC or MA Lighting (mostly due to the death of the 500 Series consoles).

Note that I am not saying that Strand is better than ETC, but I think that they deserve a bit more respect. They are one of the older companies still in the industry. They know what they are doing and they do a pretty darn good job of it. The fact that people are still running Strand dimmers that are 20+ years old is pretty impressive, and the ETC Sensor dimmer have not even been around that long! Also consider that Strand is still in a state of flux with the Genlyte and Phillips buyouts. Who knows? In a few years they may actually get a good tech support set up. They could go the other way as well, but we should hope for the best.

I know as of October Cirque: Ka was still using Strand 500's. Remember that's a show that has only been around about 5 years, SO, they chose Strand 500's over excellent console options from ETC, MA, and Hog. I believe I was told that they will consider upgrading in the not so distant future but not for any reason other than difficulty getting parts.

As for the customer service see my other recent thread. I continue to feel that I've been very well taken care of.

The fact that I can use any computer as a backup has become a HUGE advantage in the last two days.

 

[TimMiller]

i would go with a more permanent install option. I had one venue looking at smart bars, but then we really ran into issues with the supporting infrastructure. 1 main problem being heat that high up, and them possible thermaling. Ceiling temps easily reach 110 degrees plus and i think they thermal around 130, you dont have much head room. Another problem is rather than running runs of little cable, you are making runs of much thicker cable on top of now you need power distribution installed. Large breakers get expensive quick. You also have to keep in mind your dmx runs. You will have to get a splitter to break up the data runs, or you will easily exceed the 320 feet limit. (i think thats the limit). Also you will need a console capable of handling all of the extra dimmer channels. I would look into getting a strand dimmer rack, or maybe go with a varilite rack. Varilite is huge over in the UK, and we have a church here in town specing one. Its a fraction of the price over an etc, and will do all of the same things. Varilite also stocks all of their parts here in the US. Also are you opposed to buying used, I have seen some really nice deals for some 24 ch ETC racks that have only seen a few years of use for around 5-6k.

 

[icewolf08]

You also have to keep in mind your dmx runs. You will have to get a splitter to break up the data runs, or you will easily exceed the 320 feet limit. (i think thats the limit).

Methinks you are thinking Cat5 which has a 300 foot unamplified limit. I don't think that the limit on DMX length is that short. I think it is more on the order of thousands of feet (could be wrong).

 

[gafftaper]

I believe 1000 feet is the point you need to think about splitting and boosting signals in DMX runs.

EDIT: Just double checked Doug FLeenor's website and yes it's 1000 feet. Then you need to run it through a splitter to boost the signal for another 1000'. Check out the information listed under "White Papers" on this page for basic DMX info.

 

[cw4u]

Equipment racks won't be a problem. I have a couple 12-14 space racks laying around, so that part is good.

Labor will be free, except for getting that sub panel installed. The Asst Superintendent said that I could use half of his maintenance department to get the equipment installed for a week. Raceways, Racks, etc. Trusses will be welded together by our vocational welding instructor for free as well. So, labor wise, I should be good.

 

[fredthe]

Labor will be free

One thing you didn't mention... I hope someone qualfied will be hanging the trusses?

-Fred

 

[Esoteric]

One thing you didn't mention... I hope someone qualfied will be hanging the trusses?

-Fred

I hope so, but knowing school districts, probably not.

Mike

 

[cw4u]

I hope so. I'll recommend that we do. And in matters of public safety, they'll act on my recommendation. They won't have a choice not to.