New Ladder Recommendations for Focusing
- Thread starterlcthebeast
- Start date
Does anyone know where I could buy a dolly for a ladder? The school doesn't like it when students use a Genie, so we're usually stuck using a ladder for focus. Having a dolly would really speed things up, because it really does take forever. I would probably be able to build something simple, but I would prefer to just buy it. Anyone know?
rochem,
I know that Texas Scenic used to sell platforms for the A-frames but I'm not sure if they still do or not. Simple to build and much cheaper if you do it yourself. Use 2x6 lumber and good casters. Spend a bit more and get good oak...it will last forever.
I prefer a rolling A-frame to genies, but then I am really 'old school'. When working as a 'theatrical equipment installation rigger', I had some unusual days atop A-frames. At a theatre in Guthrie, Oklahoma, we installed a completely new fly system with under-hung sheaves over the stage. The ceiling over the stage was 45 feet from the deck. In order to get there, we bolted 2 aluminum extension ladders together and mounted that into a 16 foot aluminum A-frame with casters. When I climbed up, the extensions would start bending with my weight, so that I would end up climbing up an overhang. It would take about about 2 minutes for it to stop waving back and forth when I would reach the top and throw my leg over the top rung.
The most amazing thing that I ever experienced while atop an A-frame was the day that the old man who taught me stage rigging, whose name was Tom Heck, showed me how to get to a position between a proscenium wall alcove and a smoke pocket. The space in question was about 3 feet wide and there was no way the A-frame base would fit into the space. He had me climb to the top of the A-frame extension, which was about 20 feet high, and told me to hold on tight. He had one of our local hands help him grab the base of the A-frame and they lifted up on the end that was away from the area that I needed to get to. They lifted up and I slipped into the tight and difficult place to get to just as sweet as could be. I performed whatever the task was and they set down the end of the A-frame base and I climbed down. The local hand who we had hired for the day just walked away shaking his head and muttering something about having seen everything there is to see and we never saw him again. Great fun.....crazy, but great fun.
Be safe,
Rich
I know that Texas Scenic used to sell platforms for the A-frames but I'm not sure if they still do or not. Simple to build and much cheaper if you do it yourself. Use 2x6 lumber and good casters. Spend a bit more and get good oak...it will last forever.
I prefer a rolling A-frame to genies, but then I am really 'old school'. When working as a 'theatrical equipment installation rigger', I had some unusual days atop A-frames. At a theatre in Guthrie, Oklahoma, we installed a completely new fly system with under-hung sheaves over the stage. The ceiling over the stage was 45 feet from the deck. In order to get there, we bolted 2 aluminum extension ladders together and mounted that into a 16 foot aluminum A-frame with casters. When I climbed up, the extensions would start bending with my weight, so that I would end up climbing up an overhang. It would take about about 2 minutes for it to stop waving back and forth when I would reach the top and throw my leg over the top rung.
The most amazing thing that I ever experienced while atop an A-frame was the day that the old man who taught me stage rigging, whose name was Tom Heck, showed me how to get to a position between a proscenium wall alcove and a smoke pocket. The space in question was about 3 feet wide and there was no way the A-frame base would fit into the space. He had me climb to the top of the A-frame extension, which was about 20 feet high, and told me to hold on tight. He had one of our local hands help him grab the base of the A-frame and they lifted up on the end that was away from the area that I needed to get to. They lifted up and I slipped into the tight and difficult place to get to just as sweet as could be. I performed whatever the task was and they set down the end of the A-frame base and I climbed down. The local hand who we had hired for the day just walked away shaking his head and muttering something about having seen everything there is to see and we never saw him again. Great fun.....crazy, but great fun.
Be safe,
Rich
If they don't like you using a Genie there's no way they'll accept a ladder on a Dolly.
A-frames or ladders on Dolly's were a common thing back in the day... and people fell off them and died. They are TERRIBLY dangerous. I know we are all lazy at heart but do yourself a favor. Don't consider putting a ladder on a dolly, or disabling the safeties on a Genie, using a genie or scaffold that requires it without outriggers, etc... It doesn't take THAT long to climb up and down a ladder. Your life is more valuable than a few more trips up and down a ladder.
Some posts in this thread make me nervous and I'm "this close" to closing it. Please remember there are a lot of young folks reading this website. Their idea of what may or may not be safe is not always up to OSHA standards.
in the Church where I do most of my events we have an industrial heavy duty fibreglass A frame ladder that gets you up to the FOH electric pipes in the auditorium. This type of ladder is rated for a 300lb person - unlike the cheaper ladders that are only rated for a 180lb person. It has a wide base and is very stable and does not move around when you climb up or down. We bought it at Home Depot. We never move the ladder with someone on top of it. The ladder can also be carried and raised by one person so it is a breeze with two people. We do the focus with no seating so life is easy and we just slide the ladder over the tiled surface as we move along the electric.
In the Sanctuary we are able to use the same A frame ladder by sliding each side between the pews. the only way we can use a lift in this space is to remove the pews which are 18 feet long and screwed to the floor.
The biggest problem with ladders is that people usually buy the wrong grade i.e. a ladder rated for residential use - which is too flimsy. I wouldn't use one at home. Pay the extra money and buy the 300lb rated stuff and use it properly. I weigh 160lbs but many guys are over 200lbs and by you start pulling up a fixture you have a bigger load on the ladder than you realise.
Some jobs require a lift and some require scaffold as Alex said different access situations require different solutions.
In the Sanctuary we are able to use the same A frame ladder by sliding each side between the pews. the only way we can use a lift in this space is to remove the pews which are 18 feet long and screwed to the floor.
The biggest problem with ladders is that people usually buy the wrong grade i.e. a ladder rated for residential use - which is too flimsy. I wouldn't use one at home. Pay the extra money and buy the 300lb rated stuff and use it properly. I weigh 160lbs but many guys are over 200lbs and by you start pulling up a fixture you have a bigger load on the ladder than you realise.
Some jobs require a lift and some require scaffold as Alex said different access situations require different solutions.
Has the original poster thought about something like this? It's about the size of a Genie, but it's designed for movement at full height. There's your time sizing right there. They have the 12' on their site, but I'm almost positive I've seen an 18' version. You can pick these up on eBay for ~$800 US.
I've spent plenty of time sitting on the top of center-extention A-frame ladders... there's even a picture in my HS yearbook of me on one. But, as Gaff said, this is "old school", and VERY unsafe. They still make this type of ladder, in fiberglass, however they are called Trestle ladders. When we talked to the manufacturer about their use for theater, we were told that they are not designed to be used with someone working off of the extention portion. They are designed to be used in pairs, with a scaffolding plank between the upright sections. So, even though it may seem like they still make the ladders we're used to from the old days, you shouldn't be doing it that way.
So, to be safe, that leaves the modem stage with a choice of step ladder, genie-lift (or similar), mobile work platform (if allowed, and if the stage can take the weight) or scaffolding. For the moment we're making do with tall step ladders, and are waiting for the school to have the $$ for some scaffolding.
So, to be safe, that leaves the modem stage with a choice of step ladder, genie-lift (or similar), mobile work platform (if allowed, and if the stage can take the weight) or scaffolding. For the moment we're making do with tall step ladders, and are waiting for the school to have the $$ for some scaffolding.
JChenault
Well-Known Member
Depending on height - one of my favorite solutions is a rolling aluminum scaffold made by Werner. You can have a platform 4 ft by 6 ft up to 14 or so feet high without a need for outriggers. If that is high enough for the original poster, I would suggest considering it. (I was not sure if 17 to 22 feet is the working height or the platform height)
The nice thing about this system is that it provides a very large stable platform which you can have a couple of people on. It sets up in about five minutes.
The downside is that is is big, and will not go above 14 feet without outriggers.
It will not work for larger venues, but for small venues i love it.
Here is where I got mine Aluminum Scaffold
Another possibility to consider (if we are talking about fixed, permanent positions) is a bosun chair.
Take a look at Sapsis Rigging Sapsis Rigging - Stage Rigging & Safety Inspections under Focus Track.
After my wooden A frame sent me to the hospital the second time, I got one of these for my front of house units and am in love with it.
The nice thing about this system is that it provides a very large stable platform which you can have a couple of people on. It sets up in about five minutes.
The downside is that is is big, and will not go above 14 feet without outriggers.
It will not work for larger venues, but for small venues i love it.
Here is where I got mine Aluminum Scaffold
Another possibility to consider (if we are talking about fixed, permanent positions) is a bosun chair.
Take a look at Sapsis Rigging Sapsis Rigging - Stage Rigging & Safety Inspections under Focus Track.
After my wooden A frame sent me to the hospital the second time, I got one of these for my front of house units and am in love with it.
There is a height to width ratio for safe scaffold use without outriggers... I think it's 3 to 1... that might not be correct in your state so check with your local state's occupational safety rules first.
For example my 5' w scaffold can go up to 15' high without outriggers.
Also in general a big cheer for buying type 1A or 1AA ladders. You may not weight 300lbs but how much does all the gear weigh you are taking up there?
Clifford I'm not sure what you are talking about. Just about everything on the Upright sells starts at around $5,000. This is about the cheapest option from that type of lift device... and I'm pretty sure you will hate it once you start working with it. (It uses any 18 Volt drill as it's motor to lift you.)
For example my 5' w scaffold can go up to 15' high without outriggers.
Also in general a big cheer for buying type 1A or 1AA ladders. You may not weight 300lbs but how much does all the gear weigh you are taking up there?
Clifford I'm not sure what you are talking about. Just about everything on the Upright sells starts at around $5,000. This is about the cheapest option from that type of lift device... and I'm pretty sure you will hate it once you start working with it. (It uses any 18 Volt drill as it's motor to lift you.)
I will second what esoteric said. When I am doing installs I usually rent a narrow width articulating boom lift. If you do not turn the boom too much in either direction you can still move the entire lift forward and back. One of the venues I work in regularly bought a 40' articulated boom and another bought a similar height scissor lift. If you look around for used ones you can usually find good deals. Just be sure to have it regularly inspected and maintained by an experienced professional firm.
The thing that people forget about wooden ladders is that they loosen up. Look closely and you'll probably see a nut on one side of each rung. Grap a nut driver and tighten them all up. Be careful to just make them hand tight, don't get carried away with a stronger tool like a socket wrench. All of a sudden that wobbly, shaky ladder will be stiff and sturdy.
Fiberglass ladders are great because they stay quite stiff. They are approved for use around electrical equipment, but they are heavy beasts to carry.
Aluminum ladders are sturdy and light weight, but never use them around electrical equipment, such as lighting.
Fiberglass ladders are great because they stay quite stiff. They are approved for use around electrical equipment, but they are heavy beasts to carry.
Aluminum ladders are sturdy and light weight, but never use them around electrical equipment, such as lighting.
JD
Well-Known Member
I hate ladders! The irony here is that the original concept of the Vari-lite was to minimize the need to climb to focus, yet here we are 30+ years later still doing it. I would almost rather set up scaffold but that is often impractical. Genie lifts are nice, but the idea of a climb on a 40 foot ladder... I would rather be tying pots on a live 13kv line!
We recently had the smoke detectors changed out in our sanctuary. They were at the roof peak, about 40 feet up. I watched the alarm guys wedge an extension ladder straight up into the peak and climb it. I left to go review their insurance papers.
As for the original topic, 3 to 1 is what I have always known, at least with scaffold. The reality of the matter is that what you are doing up there also comes into play. (No break-dancing on the scaffold!)
We recently had the smoke detectors changed out in our sanctuary. They were at the roof peak, about 40 feet up. I watched the alarm guys wedge an extension ladder straight up into the peak and climb it. I left to go review their insurance papers.
As for the original topic, 3 to 1 is what I have always known, at least with scaffold. The reality of the matter is that what you are doing up there also comes into play. (No break-dancing on the scaffold!)
It didn't link to the page I was looking at. Upright has a 12 foot vertical mast lift that I've seen used for ~$800. UpRight TM12 Verticle Mast Lift Picture
Not trying to fight with Clifford. But for $800 it must have been trashed. A quick search yielded results in the $1700-$3900 range for a USED one depending on age and hours of operation. The $3900 one was a 1998 model with 34 hours of use.
If you need a new battery that alone will cost you $1000.
That's really cool, but at only 14 feet it's applications are limited.
The ceiling in my living room is taller than that.
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