Control/Dimming New light board for a high school

[jmabray]

Oh feel free to pick at the nits all you want. I don't mind at all. I would rather it be more accurate than not. I try to post what I know to be accurate and stay as much away from rumor and innuendo as I can.

I know it was more complex, but I didn't think that we needed to get into that here. If you would like to, I am all for it...

 

[Darthrob13]

Oh feel free to pick at the nits all you want. I don't mind at all. I would rather it be more accurate than not. I try to post what I know to be accurate and stay as much away from rumor and innuendo as I can.

I know it was more complex, but I didn't think that we needed to get into that here. If you would like to, I am all for it...

I'll save it for my tell-all book when I retire......30 some years from now......

 

[gafftaper]

Ok, minor hijack here.

My HS is in the market for a new console and are looking at both the LCS maXim because it is really simple to use and an ETC Ion because its current and can do more things (my preference is the Ion). Anyway, we got some quotes and the Australian prices seem to be at around $11000AUD which according to google is $9300USD for a 1000 channel Ion and a 1 x20 fader wing. From what I have read on here, that is about $3000 - $4000USD too much. My next thought is to maybe buy one out of the US and have it shipped in. Does anyone have names of places I can contact to get quotes?

Cheers
Tom

A private message is on it's way with a couple suggestions.

 

[NickJones]

yeah. we have no movers at our school (and unless somthing drastic changes we never will) and i've been looking @ new desks. Strand 300 was looking a good bet. but they don't make em anymore. we currently have a jester. and its really hard to find desks that don't do movers. im currently looking at the Strand "presetPalette" its up to 96 channels. simple so non techs can do it, and advanced so techs can do it. looked like a good choice. cant help u with prices tho.

 

[pcdude293]

My high school has a Strand Preset Palette board. I origonally hated it, the GUI was terrible, but since I upgraded to the 10.3.1 software and added a wireless network so i can fire cues from my laptop, I love it. I would reccomend it to anyone who is considering a lighting board for a high school.

 

[KKeen]

Hey clay --

we always recommend the new smartfade consoles for high schools, mainly because of the price (under 2 grand) and the ease of use (the online tutorial on ETC's website is much more affordable (free!) than some other vendor's tech). they are amazing and completely unintimidating. the ION is really meant as a moving light desk, and if all you're controlling are dimmers and scrollers you really just need one DMX universe.

Plus its ETC. a top company with amazing customer service. most rental/sales houses will bring in a demo unit for you and your school to try out before buying.

and congrats! new tech is always exciting!

-------
Kirk Keen
Rental Manager
Hollywood Lighting Services, Inc.
Portland, OR
Seattle, WA

 

[kesco]

I've been using the Marquee board, married to the Strand C21 dimmer for the past year and a half, and I think it is great.

 

[KKeen]

Used Expresses are still selling (I'm selling ours here; used prices are still higher than that of a new smartfade ML) but ETC is ony supporting the series until they run out of parts, which could be as little as one year out. So if your power supply gets crushed by a rigger rolling a motorbox over it or if a power surge frys the internals or (god forbid) 3M stops making floppy disks (!!!) yr scrwd.

It seems that everytime there is a technology change regarding consoles, there is always a backlash from the industry. Remember when HogII programmers went ballistic over the HogIII, or when Avo prog's went crazy when they added monitors to their beloved desks? This is the same thing, I think. Now, these community backlashes caused changes that were in the end worthwhile (Hog IPC, Avo Pearl & Diamond, etc.), which is a good thing. I remember when I switched to an Express 48/96 from an Obsession and I HATED IT. It was just something new, something different, and in the end it was a better console *for what I was using it for.* In the end, console's are just tools, and while it would be cool to put EOS's or grandMA IIs in every performance space, recommending a Ferrari when a Toyota would do just isn't right.

 

[derekleffew]

...but ETC is only supporting the series until they run out of parts, which could be as little as one year out. ...

ETC has a proven history of supporting every console back to the 1986 Vision (including maintaining loaner stock), so I don't think the situation is as dire as you make it appear.

Still, as has been expressed lol here many times, a void exists between the SmartFade and the Ion, and I hope ETC is listening.

 

[derekleffew]

... I originally hated it, the GUI was terrible, but since I upgraded to the 10.3.1 software and added a wireless network so i can fire cues from my laptop, I love it. ...

Exactly HOW did upgrading the software and adding wireless improve the GUI? Was 10.3.1 a major GUI overhaul?

 

[icewolf08]

Hey clay --

we always recommend the new smartfade consoles for high schools, mainly because of the price (under 2 grand) and the ease of use (the online tutorial on ETC's website is much more affordable (free!) than some other vendor's tech). they are amazing and completely unintimidating. the ION is really meant as a moving light desk, and if all you're controlling are dimmers and scrollers you really just need one DMX universe.

Plus its ETC. a top company with amazing customer service. most rental/sales houses will bring in a demo unit for you and your school to try out before buying.

While I think that Charc was a little blunt, I agree that SmartFade is NOT a good replacement for an Express(ion) series console, no matter what the venue is. If a high school had an Express then they paid almost exactly the same as what an Ion costs. Also, Eos and Ion are not moving light desks, at least in the sense of how we are used to thinking of them. Eos and Ion are all-around consoles, and much better all around consoles than ETC has ever produced.

As we have talked about in many threads and posts, even trained professionals have issues navigating SmartFade, while people sitting at Ion do just fine. There is this one major venue down the street from me whose technicians would take a MicroVision before they would take a SmartFade.

The last thing is that SmartFade leaves now room to grow. One of the things that educational institutions look for when making big capital purchases like lighting desks is longevity and expandability. With Ion, you may not need all the features now, but 5 years from now you might. Maybe in 5 years you have 10 moving lights and a bunch of LED fixtures, and who knows what. Now if you had purchased SmartFade, you are hosed with only 96 channels. With SmartFade ML you are limited to 2 universes. However if you have Ion, this is no sweat, and controlling all the new gear is simple and easy. Ion doesn't have to be intimidating, it can be as simple as you want it to be and it can expand as you need it to. There are many other consoles by reliable manufacturers that I would recommend to a high school before Smartfade.

Note: I have no affiliation with any equipment manufacturers. I have nothing against any equipment manufacturers or the equipment they produce. The opinions expressed above are simply my own opinions on this specific piece of hardware. I encourage everyone to demo consoles and form their own opinions.

 

[waynehoskins]

There is this one major venue down the street from me whose technicians would take a MicroVision before they would take a SmartFade.

Honestly, I think ANYBODY who's used a real console before would, given the choice between even a pre-FX Microvision and a Smartfade, quickly embrace the Microvision.

Smartfade is a terrible misnomer, as we've all observed before.

Which reminds me, since what's-his-face there is putting Smartfades in the schools in place of Expresses, I'll gladly take your old throw-away Expression-series consoles. Even an Expression 1.

 

[Diarmuid]

I've used the smartfade on two occasions. In fairness to it, I'd have to say that on one of the occasions it did its job really well... on the other occasion, not really so good.

To start off with the bad occasion, I was using it in a small studio space, running shows that were changing every night, whilst it did provide flexibility, due to time constraints it was pretty much impossible to run the cues as a stack and so it was just played back off of submasters/'memories'.

The second situation, it was in use by a touring theatre company which wasn't touring with a dedicated technician. They were using the smartfade with a remote footpedal switch, allowing lighting changes to be controlled by the actors, it worked and more importantly simple functions such as patching are easy to access if annoyingly slow.

So whilst I'll agree that the smartfade isn't a good console for most theatre applications, it isn't always the worst desk around...

 

[tomed101]

One thing that I don't think has been noted regarding the ion is how easy it is to use. I am about to graduate from HS where we just purchased an ion (on my recommendation). One week and three hours after receiving the desk, I had a show which I had programed with not much trouble. I had never used anything other than 2-scene memory consoles before, and armed with only the manual, everything worked out fine. This show had a mixture of LED and conventionals.

I see this only as a great achievement on ETC's part, having created such a great console which can do so much, that can be used by a high school student with no experience.

 

[gafftaper]

One of the things I spent a lot of time looking for at LDI was a good cheap console for a high school. I've said enough about Smartfade already. My top choice, for those who can afford it, is clearly Ion and a fader wing.

For those who can't afford Ion, my next favorite would be Strand Basic Palette.... a simple board at a good price with a lot of power under the hood. Only comes with 100 channels but you can pay for 512 if you need them down the road. As Alex said, expandability is important if you get a grant. While it's not an MA, it can handle intelligent gear pretty well.

Next step down for a true Express replacement: EDI's Bijou. A great basic 2 scene memory console. Nothing fancy, not the latest technology, but it will look and feel very familiar to anyone who has used an express 24/48.

 

[gafftaper]

My high school has a Strand Preset Palette board. I origonally hated it, the GUI was terrible, but since I upgraded to the 10.3.1 software and added a wireless network so i can fire cues from my laptop, I love it. I would reccomend it to anyone who is considering a lighting board for a high school.

Exactly HOW did upgrading the software and adding wireless improve the GUI? Was 10.3.1 a major GUI overhaul?

I'm guessing the board was one of the early ones like mine that came with OS9. OS9 was just a quick remodel of Horizon software and quite poor. OS10 was a full redesign that is working perfect for me. I haven't seen any instability or crashes in the year I've been using it... and it sort of looks like the CB Black and Gold Style .

 

[baxtercontrols]

Hi
My high school is currently looking to purchase a new light board. We use 5 pin DMX 512 for control. We have about 100 conventional lights as well as six gel scrollers which use 3 DMX channels each. We don't have any moving lights and it is unlikely that we will be getting any in the near future. Currently we use Horizon by Rosco for all our shows. We like the simple point and click interface used. I would like to find a board that has an interface similar to this so that I don't have to type every cue into a number pad. Also I would like to be able to name each cue instead it just being identified by a number. As well we have a 48 channel two scene preset board. We usually use this for contracts and simple events. i would like a board that can do both of these things. So it needs to have a cue stack and sub masters for simple events. I was looking at the Leprecon LPX-24 but I don't think this is what we want. Currently I started looking at the Strand basic palette or classic palette. However the basic palette says it only has 100 channels which would not be enough. I was also looking at the ETC ION but this doesn't have submasters. I would like to stay under about 6000 but this is stretchable.

Thanks
-Clay

Check out the Lehigh Wave console. Catch the Wave at LDI 2007
I just saw it at a show in Houston and I was very impressed. It fills a new niche created by the loss of the Express line from ETC.
Rather than have an external monitor, it allows you to hookup an external laptop or desktop w/monitor to USB and with freeware, acts as a monitor. Wonderful cost saving idea. It is like an Expression Lite, but at a fraction of the cost. less than $2k. Kinda cool and user friendly.

 

[demontanuki]

I’ve used both the ETC ions and the Strand Sub-Pallet and Standard-Pallet. I would go with the ETC ion over anything out there. Flexibility and stability are my biggest problems with the new strand boards.

 

[TimMiller]

I dont recall if i have said it in this post but i have been specing the road hog for all school installs with great sucess. The syntax is pretty close to ETC and there is the ability to run any dmx toys off of it.

 

[SteveB]

Check out the Lehigh Wave console. Catch the Wave at LDI 2007
I just saw it at a show in Houston and I was very impressed. It fills a new niche created by the loss of the Express line from ETC.
Rather than have an external monitor, it allows you to hookup an external laptop or desktop w/monitor to USB and with freeware, acts as a monitor. Wonderful cost saving idea. It is like an Expression Lite, but at a fraction of the cost. less than $2k. Kinda cool and user friendly.

If I'm reading this correctly, the "only" method of getting an external monitor is to use a laptop or desktop PC linked via USB, versus a $150 LCD monitor ?.

Can that be correct ?, as that makes absolutley no sense to me.

OR:

Do you mean the console readily supports both direct video on an external monitor as well as PC/Laptop via USB

Never mind, I went to the website and the first is correct.

Rather then install a video card, they chose to have you either view data on a roughly 1" x 3" LCD display OR a separate PC via USB - IF YOU HAPPEN TO OWN ONE !. I'll bet that's going to go over big at the typical high school !.

I understand the market for the console, one view at the website said "Leprecon", but at least the Leprecon LP1600 has a video output.

I believe this is a poor design choice. That's my nice opinion. I'll bite my tongue on my real opinion.

Steve B.