New speakers for a black box?

tdek

Member
I just started as a TD at a small college, and I'm trying to update a lot of the equipment. One of my first projects is the sound system in our black box space. We have a good board so i'm just looking to update the amp/speakers. We don't really use mics, so the speakers are mainly for music and sound fx. We currently have an ancient crown power amp and 4 ancient bose speakers, all of which may or may not work at any time. I'm thinking about switching to powered speakers, but that's mainly because that is what I've always used in the past. What kind of set up would you recommend? The space is approx. 40' by 80' with a 17' grid. Its a flex space, so the speakers would be rehung for each show, depending on stage orientation and audience set up.
Any suggestions?
 
Do you know any specific model numers for the equipment? Is they system configured for mono or stereo? What exactly do you mean by "may or may not work at any given time"? Sounds to me like a case of power/signal not prevailing to said equipment. The equipment may also just require servicing, and if it is aquedate for your needs and sounds good you may want to just leave it in place. Also keep in mind that there are allot of factors involved in upgrading, especially when going from an unpowered system to a powered system, such as cable runs and constant power availibility. The costs can skyrocket fast, especially if you have to install new power and conduit.
Hope this helps
 
would this be an installed system or would it be set up new every show?
 
The current equipment is not going to cut it much longer. It has some serious issues, including blown speaker cones, so I'm looking at replacement. It would not be an installed system, we set it up new for each show.
 
We will need to know more information...like how big is your box and how big is your budget :)...Off hand, I have some SX300's which are good for small spaces like a blackboxes.
 
In my black box I had three EV ZX5's that I used for mains, 4 EV ZX1's that I used for stage monitors, surrounds, or for putting sound effects in specific locations in the theater. We had an 18" JBL sub hanging in the center of the room. It was a rocking little system.
 
Here are the speakers that gafftaper referred to:
Electro-Voice Zx/ZxA Series
They are available in both active and passive.
As a small college, how are you allowed to buy stuff, do you have to go through a bid process, are you allowed to sell surplus yourself or does it have to go elsewhere to be sold. I am thinking of the "antique" crown amp, might be worth more than you think depending on the model. Are you allowed to buy used.
Where in Texas are you, if near Dallas you might stop by Sound Productions and give a listed to what they have. Are there any stocking pro audio stores near you.
Whatever you get, make sure they have real fly points, there are some cheaper knockoffs that may not be safe to hang. I was going to post the Sound Productions link but it looks like they may have forgotten to renew their domain.
 
We don't really use mics, so the speakers are mainly for music and sound fx.
What kind of music and sound effects and at what levels? Are you thinking background music and ambient effects or a full orchestral or rock soundtracks and effects such as thunder and explosions?

Do you have an Assistive Listening system? If not and you are installing a new speaker system then you may also want to verify if an ALS system would be required under the current ADA guidelines as they have changed from when the original system was probably installed.

We currently have an ancient crown power amp and 4 ancient bose speakers, all of which may or may not work at any time. I'm thinking about switching to powered speakers, but that's mainly because that is what I've always used in the past. What kind of set up would you recommend? The space is approx. 40' by 80' with a 17' grid. Its a flex space, so the speakers would be rehung for each show, depending on stage orientation and audience set up.
Any suggestions?
As Aman noted, you may have to consider the power, cabling and related conduit, boxes, etc. that exist and what changes and/or additions would be involved in getting to where you want including what may be required to switch to powered speakers. That may get into who should or must perform some of the work.

Added: For example, you currently may have line level cabling to amplifiers and then unshielded pair speaker from the amps or a speaker patch panel out to speaker locations. The speaker cable would need to be replaced with shielded, twisted pair line level cable and new terminations out at the speaker locations. You'll likely also need new cables to go from those terminations to the speakers. You would also likely need to replace any related patch panel. You might also need to have power at each speaker within the length of the power cord so you may need to move or add circuits and/or receptacles for that, which may require an Electrical Engineer and/or Electrical Contractor (if you're lucky the school may have these on staff, otherwise that may be an additional cost). You might also want to consider how you will turn the speakers on and off, some powered speakers have an automatic 'standby' mode but not all and even those that do will wake up with any audio signal so you may still want a way to actually power them off without having to get up to each speaker. And if you are having to make major changes, you may want to consider if you want to change any of the existing speaker connection locations or add any new locations.

This may also get into the budget, If you have a set budget that has to cover everything involved then every dollar spent on having to modify or replace cabling, power provisions, etc. is a dollar less to spend on the speakers, but you also don't want to skimp or cut corners on those aspects. Oh, and if you do have a budget it might help to have some idea of that budget in order to help make appropriate recommendations.

You may also want to consider that powered speakers are typically heavier and require both audio and power connections, so the loads and efforts involved in hanging them may differ. That may or may not be an issue in terms of the loads on the grid itself but it may be a factor depending on how you or students access the grid to hang them.

The current equipment is not going to cut it much longer. It has some serious issues, including blown speaker cones, so I'm looking at replacement.
As part of any replacement effort you probably want to try to identify why the current speakers are in such shape and what can or should be done to prevent that from happening to the new speakers. That may encompass hardware, training, documentation, etc.

It would not be an installed system, we set it up new for each show.
The speakers may be able to be used in multiple different locations, but from a code perspective it sounds like some aspects might be considered an installed system.
 
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My black box currently has 4 hanging Tannoy V12's and an 18" JBL powered sub. I'm still experimenting with sub placement, but it's a rockin' system for music. I'm currently doing The Diviners, and my thunder is... well... thunderous. :)
 
I have to recommend JBL SRX712's as some awesome blackbox speakers. They aren't self powered, but they sound pretty good. They don't make hanging hardware for it so we had to make our own yokes. But their low profile makes them awesome hanging speakers where space is often being fought for on the grid, and they don't interfere with the LD too much.
 
I have to recommend JBL SRX712's as some awesome blackbox speakers. They aren't self powered, but they sound pretty good. They don't make hanging hardware for it so we had to make our own yokes. But their low profile makes them awesome hanging speakers where space is often being fought for on the grid, and they don't interfere with the LD too much.
Since it seems a good example, I'll use the SRX712M as an example of some of the factors that may be relevant to consider.

JBL does offer the SRX712M-YK yoke mount for the SRX712M, so no need to DIY, but would a yoke mount work in your application or is some other form of mounting required?

Since the horn cannot be rotated, when it is oriented sideways the SRX712M has a nominal 50 degree wide by 90 degree vertical coverage, although that varies from around less than 40x90 at around 1,200Hz to around 90x100 at 2.4 or 2.5kHz. Coverage is one thing people often overlook for portable and/or effects speakers but it can still be relevant so think about how the pattern of any speaker being considered might work or not in your application.

JBL says the +/-3dB response of the SRX712M is 83Kz-18kHz but the frequency response graph provided seems to reflect an unequalized +/-3dB response of closer to 100Hz-12kHz (JBL seems to use the half space response for the numeric specs, which may not apply to a flown or truss mounted speaker). So the SRX712M may require some additional low end support for low frequency effects or full range music reproduction, which may or may not be a consideration based on the goals. At the same time, do you need a 131dB/1W/1m maximum output and do you have any system equalization? If you don't need that much output and have equalization available then you may be able to trade off maximum output for equalized low end response while if you do need that much output then that may eliminate some other options.

While the SRX712M is still on JBL's web site, all of the major online retailers show it as discontinued so that may make it an impractical option anyways (it is apparently being replaced by the STX812M, which is similar but with a nominal 70x70 pattern). However, the SRX712Ms that some dealers still apparently have in stock as well as the new STX812M both appear to be around $1,200 a piece plus around $100 for the matching yoke mount. Is $1,300 per speaker at, above or below what your budget can support?

That's just an example of how what works in one application may not be appropriate in another. With limited information provided people can respond based on what works well for them or what they might do for their own situation, but those responses may or may not be directly relevant to another situation. If you want specific product recommendations for your situation then you may need to provide additional information such as mounting method, size or weight constraints and budegt
 
hello, our church needs new main speakers for a room that is 60x50. we have a budget of $1600 and need two speakers. what kind are the best?
 

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