New Venue - Modular Staging

[kicknargel]

A theatre in which I design is getting a brand new facility. The main stage is a 45 x 45 black box (which will seem giant compared to what they have now!). I'm doing some consulting and trying to push things to be flexible, modular and production-oriented.

I am proposing that the slab be lowered approx 12" to allow a modular platforming system to become the stage (and house) floor. That way we could pull out sections to install a turntable, shallow trap (for props maybe) or lighting trough or whatever. I'd also like to be able to cut grooves for tracking scenery.

Any thoughts on the proposed design (see attached)? And brilliant ideas I'm missing?

 

[TDN]

I would raise the question as to whether it's more effective to have this modular system that you have to keep adapting, or plan on using a triscuit system and build up for every show. It's two ways to come at the same point, but you might have more flexibility building up a deck for each show rather than try to work within your existing system, because it lets you space and put what you need exactly where you need it.

For the sight lines in our 40X40 blackbox, we are often building up a show deck rather than trying to keep the stage and house floor at the same level. I don't know what you are using for audience seating, but since we don't have high seats, we like to build up the stage.

One thing that I wish our consultant had done was figure out how audiences would fit in our space- there's some poor layout choices that kill a lot of space and doesn't work great with our audience riser system.

 

[JChenault]

I would opine that you would find this a difficult system to use. You say you want the Masonite to overlap the seams and attached with screws. So after a couple of shoes earn you paint the floor, you will have paint and crud all over the floor. If you want to pull a 4x4 section you will need to pull at least a couple of sheets of Masonite. How do you find the screws? Etc.

stage floors are dirty, get gunk everywhere. removing and replacing sections is not easy. Even when designed to do so.

If you do go ahead with this, be sure to think about how you will take out your first section. Some kind of trunk handles on each platform? Make sure the supports between each platform can be removed without affecting the rest of the system. Make sure the sub floor under your stage is absolutely level ( frequently this would be a rough pour and the floor would be leveled with the framing system. my hunch is you are adding a fair amount of expense and complexity without a lot of gain.

Now that said, the idea of lighting troughs might make sense, ie at appropriate places ( probably around the edges of the space ) you build a pit with a removable lid, bit do not attempt to hide the seam.

Good luck. Have fun

 

[Footer]

Ya, I'm not really thrilled with this idea either. I would rather see a space that is a solid 4 wall with a solid grid and build up from there. When you have specialty things in spaces like this either people use it and love it or it never gets used. If the designer is not used to it they won't use it. Odds are it will get sealed over with maso and never touched again.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Not a like or dislike - hopefully some objective thoughts.

4' X 4' is efficient for materials but sucks for rows of seating. 3' X 3' (I use a lot of 3' X 6' with a few of 3' X 3' in our black box designs) would work a lot better.

Also, is the framing just perimeter two by? 3/4" ply - even double - will not support the minimum loads required of a stage floor. I support 3/4" ply on 12" centers (thats by fours on the flat - os 8 1/2" spans) and and 1 1/8" ply on 16" centers. Stage floor by code are designed to 125 or 150 psf.

I'd also probably spring for 5/4 pine framing - much truer, squarer edged, and less twisty. Also a lighter unit.

But I like the idea the recessed floor. Did it once at MIT - with Stageright decks. Your idea with with 3 x 3 stressed skin panels with foam cores would be pretty nifty - probably 1/2" ply skins. A trisket concept. I'd be inclined to cover with full sheets of maso and overlap seams.

On edges - instead of a square cut undersize - consider that edges are beveled ever so slightly - like doors - so top is within a 1/16" or 3/32" of on center spacing but bottom of panel is smaller by an 1/8 all around. Avoids the need to lift straight up.

At Alley Theatre, for traps, we designed a system that used two layers of 1 1/8" ply (and 3/4" plyron on top - but not a strength factor) - 4' X 4' - supported on just opposite edges - not all four. No framing. Good for over 150 psf and 2000 pound concentrated loads. But the two layers were factory laminated with industrial roll coaters and moisture cured polyurethane glue. This is a bond like between the layers of plywood so it's really 2 1/4" ply.

So one way pony walls, 3 x 3 double 3/4" ply, and plyron, all with beveled edges. Lay the acoustic fuzz on the floor rather than apply to deck.

Or not. These are always fun projects and great topics on CB.

 

[kicknargel]

Bill,

Thanks for the ideas. I was especially hoping you'd weigh in. I'm not picturing this really interacting with seating - this is just the +0" deck and seating risers (and any show platforming) will be positioned on top on a show-by-show basis. I'm just trying to gain some access under the deck for foreseen and unforeseen future desires. And no, I was not planning on only perimeter framing. Just figured the GC or architect would want to decide the spans and lumber specs. And I was trying to stay with construction methods that would be in a GC's wheelhouse, but I do like the idea of stressed skin panels, 5/4 and the bevel idea. Steel would be great, too. It would be swell to build this in my shop, rather than by the GC, but I don't yet know whose toes are sensitive to stepping.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

And I misunderstood completely that you were designing these to be built by someone else. In that case, if part of a general contract, I'd go to StageRight or SECOA in a heartbeat. They understand theatre much better than whomever a typical GC would have build these - especially the weight and handling issues.

Also , thought you'd use the same decks for seating risers. Would work really cool with StageRight decks - and you could store the extra legs in the space below the floor. Very simple. Easy to drop in a custom one of for a show.

And if you really want cool, try Nivoflex. http://www.steeldeckny.com/product-brand/NIVOflex-Airstage-platforms/ I think Stageing Concepts has a knock off as well so prices will drop. I toured a facility in Toronto that used these.

 

[kicknargel]

Well, building myself would be ideal. My involvement is new and so far casual, so I don't yet know who is contracted for what.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Ya know? I understand the urge and desire to fit but if your a key player in the overall project or even a substantial portion, avoid taking on additional tasks. You need to be full hands and eyes on the work by the contractors rather than taking on parts of the work. It will get to be a time consuming task.

 

[kicknargel]

Well, by "build myself," I mean take on as a project for my commercial scene shop. Finding things to build is my job.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Well, by "build myself," I mean take on as a project for my commercial scene shop. Finding things to build is my job.

Well, then I really don't know your role with the owner of the new building. Thought you were strictly an employee of the theatre company, and that was who the caution of taking on too much diy tasks.

 

[kicknargel]

No, sorry, I design a few shows a year for them, and they've asked me to consult on the project.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Got it.

 

[RickR]

stage floors are dirty, get gunk everywhere. removing and replacing sections is not easy. Even when designed to do so.

I second this notion. Building a stage floor up from flat and level is far easier than messing with a complex system that 'seemed like a good idea at the time'

Perhaps you can design & build a staging system for them that will get them started and they can add more ( and special?) units as they grow. Chances are very good that all available funds have gone into the building basics. Adding on a show by show basis might fit their funding better.

 

[kicknargel]

Perhaps you can design & build a staging system for them that will get them started and they can add more ( and special?) units as they grow.

That's the whole point. You want a 12' flush turntable for this show? No problem. If the stage is flooring on a concrete slab there will never be an option.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

That's the whole point. You want a 12' flush turntable for this show? No problem. If the stage is flooring on a concrete slab there will never be an option.

I agree this is the right idea for specific user. Like a fully trapped stage its the right choice sometimes. Were I the TD or production manager or whatever, I'd like the raised floor but instead of modular just make it wood so easy to drop a saw into, do what is needed, and then patch and restore. But when I was a td/designer, I didn't use stock platforms - just joists and ply. There are a lot of "right" solutions. I do feel your first design above (probably not "first" I know) is a little too specific and complicated. That's why I liked the 2"+ laminated ply just set on knee walls, screwed down, and cover with plyron or hardboard covering seams. Simple, easy to restore, etc.