Jeff Lelko
Active Member
Hi Scott,
I'm glad that you're not afraid to defend your product, though you appear to have taken what I've said personally and that was not the intent of my comments. Also, I am sorry to hear of your loss.
The point that I'm trying to raise for discussion isn't so much about the actual product that you sell as it is the nature of purchasing from "boutique" dealers within the industry. The only speculation I make is regarding the output of the lights - everything else is fairly objective and doesn't require ownership to point out. Please consider the following as constructive conversation and not a personal attack on you or your company in any way.
1) What I mean by a "real" warranty is that I can I deliver a defective product to any authorized repair center (or even a dealer in some cases) and have the unit repaired or replaced in a timely manner. I'm not saying that you don't do this, but as is the case with most boutique dealers, you only operate out of one shop in the entire country (as far as I can tell). That means any fixture with any issues is making the trip up and back to Kentucky and not in service making me money. Yes, I understand the need of having working spares and whatnot, but that's besides the point. No matter what, I'm in it for the long haul with you since I would no longer consider these fixtures to be at the disposable price point. In a few cases dealers/manufacturers have even overnighted replacement parts to me so that I don't have to pull the equipment in question out of service. In other cases I have been given loaner units while my defective unit was under repair. Given that you import straight from China, how many parts and working spares do you keep on hand for situations like these? Buying lights from users on AliExpress also claim to carry a warranty, though I have my doubts as to what the real value of that is. Let me ask this question another way... What if I decide to rent out a dozen or so lights that I purchase from you and they come back destroyed? No, of course that's not covered under warranty, but...had I gone name-brand, one call to a dealer and I'll have replacement units overnighted to me and they'll be ready to enter service alongside the rest of my inventory the next day. Do you stock enough inventory in the United States to be able to offer that kind of service?
2) I'm glad to hear that the next revision of your website will allow for the downloading of fixture manuals and specifications. Being a business owner myself I understand that maintaining a website can be challenging and things that seem simple are usually far from it! As you can read further up in this thread, I'm not against purchasing product from you. In fact, I'm quite the opposite. I've been occasionally visiting your website for the past few years, yet hardly anything has changed on it - at least the product area that I always go to. To me, I find it hard to believe that I'm buying anything better than ebay quality lights when I can't even find a manual for what I'm buying or see what the DMX parameters are! Your website also seems to have mapping issues, which is slightly concerning to a prospective buyer. It's nice that you were able to provide this information to someone in need, but I hardly consider it "service" to provide resources that should be publicly available to anyone who might need it. You have some good advice already about how to possibly make this work, so I think it'd really be a boost to your credibility to get this going! I'm sure plenty of us would be happy to lend input if you run into trouble.
3) I still have my doubts, but that would be speculative. What I will say about product consistency is this - with most major brands I can buy or rent product anywhere in the country (or world in some cases) and rest assured what I get will match with what's already in my inventory. Yes, it's the right of the manufacturer to make changes to a unit as they see fit and once in a while I'll come across a matching unit with a few cosmetic differences, but generally speaking I don't have to worry about mismatching fixture performance issues in this situation (also see my points in paragraph 1 about needing to quickly deploy a replacement).
4) The issue of fan noise was directed more to RideTheSquirrel who was considering such lights which have fans. I see that you offer several IP65 fixtures as well, which are the ones I've been eyeing for some time. The thing is though, 2 or 3 years ago that was a major selling point. Now more and more fixtures run silently and/or are IP65 and still quite affordable. Most also offer a much higher frequency than the 300Hz you list.
5) Any response would just be more speculation on my end, so I'll let that one be...
Not mentioned earlier are rental and resale prospects. This would be highly dependent on the intended use by the buyer, but it generally helps to stock inventory that people have heard of, let alone if needing any rider acceptance.
Also not mentioned are any acceptable listings of your products such MET/ETL/UL/etc.
You're welcome to not agree with me, though most of what I'm saying here isn't opinion. The fact is that over the past couple of years, ebay lights are getting better and cheaper all the time. Two years ago, it was hard to find something decent for under $100. Today, there are plenty of reasonable direct-from-China options that can be had for a fraction of that! No, they won't stand up to most name-brand fixtures, but for $35 I wouldn't expect it to! At the same time, name-brand manufacturers are also pushing the lower end of their inventory with very respectable options. Since you also sell name-brand fixtures, I know you can agree with what I say when I mention that your prices aren't too far off from the dealer cost of equivalent budget-name-brand fixtures.
Scott, I'm not attacking your company at all! Believe me, I'd love to find a seller that is able to offer quality fixtures at low prices! Aren't we all? The hesitation I have relating to everything above is what goes along with buying from a boutique dealer. That's not a bad thing, and this industry has several such manufacturers that have carved out a nice niche for themselves. The catch is, to make the baggage of sorts that accompanies buying from one worth it, they have to offer something that no one else sells, or, offer their product at a steep discount while still delivering acceptable quality and reliability. Nothing personal, but I just don't see that here when I'd only be saving 10 or 15% from a mainstream supplier. Seeing essentially crickets when the question is asked of who has actually uses your product, I'd dare say that I'm not alone in my view of the situation. And yes, I do think I have every right to chime into a discussion involving a supplier that I was interested in purchasing from... Thanks for your attention.
I'm glad that you're not afraid to defend your product, though you appear to have taken what I've said personally and that was not the intent of my comments. Also, I am sorry to hear of your loss.
The point that I'm trying to raise for discussion isn't so much about the actual product that you sell as it is the nature of purchasing from "boutique" dealers within the industry. The only speculation I make is regarding the output of the lights - everything else is fairly objective and doesn't require ownership to point out. Please consider the following as constructive conversation and not a personal attack on you or your company in any way.
1) What I mean by a "real" warranty is that I can I deliver a defective product to any authorized repair center (or even a dealer in some cases) and have the unit repaired or replaced in a timely manner. I'm not saying that you don't do this, but as is the case with most boutique dealers, you only operate out of one shop in the entire country (as far as I can tell). That means any fixture with any issues is making the trip up and back to Kentucky and not in service making me money. Yes, I understand the need of having working spares and whatnot, but that's besides the point. No matter what, I'm in it for the long haul with you since I would no longer consider these fixtures to be at the disposable price point. In a few cases dealers/manufacturers have even overnighted replacement parts to me so that I don't have to pull the equipment in question out of service. In other cases I have been given loaner units while my defective unit was under repair. Given that you import straight from China, how many parts and working spares do you keep on hand for situations like these? Buying lights from users on AliExpress also claim to carry a warranty, though I have my doubts as to what the real value of that is. Let me ask this question another way... What if I decide to rent out a dozen or so lights that I purchase from you and they come back destroyed? No, of course that's not covered under warranty, but...had I gone name-brand, one call to a dealer and I'll have replacement units overnighted to me and they'll be ready to enter service alongside the rest of my inventory the next day. Do you stock enough inventory in the United States to be able to offer that kind of service?
2) I'm glad to hear that the next revision of your website will allow for the downloading of fixture manuals and specifications. Being a business owner myself I understand that maintaining a website can be challenging and things that seem simple are usually far from it! As you can read further up in this thread, I'm not against purchasing product from you. In fact, I'm quite the opposite. I've been occasionally visiting your website for the past few years, yet hardly anything has changed on it - at least the product area that I always go to. To me, I find it hard to believe that I'm buying anything better than ebay quality lights when I can't even find a manual for what I'm buying or see what the DMX parameters are! Your website also seems to have mapping issues, which is slightly concerning to a prospective buyer. It's nice that you were able to provide this information to someone in need, but I hardly consider it "service" to provide resources that should be publicly available to anyone who might need it. You have some good advice already about how to possibly make this work, so I think it'd really be a boost to your credibility to get this going! I'm sure plenty of us would be happy to lend input if you run into trouble.
3) I still have my doubts, but that would be speculative. What I will say about product consistency is this - with most major brands I can buy or rent product anywhere in the country (or world in some cases) and rest assured what I get will match with what's already in my inventory. Yes, it's the right of the manufacturer to make changes to a unit as they see fit and once in a while I'll come across a matching unit with a few cosmetic differences, but generally speaking I don't have to worry about mismatching fixture performance issues in this situation (also see my points in paragraph 1 about needing to quickly deploy a replacement).
4) The issue of fan noise was directed more to RideTheSquirrel who was considering such lights which have fans. I see that you offer several IP65 fixtures as well, which are the ones I've been eyeing for some time. The thing is though, 2 or 3 years ago that was a major selling point. Now more and more fixtures run silently and/or are IP65 and still quite affordable. Most also offer a much higher frequency than the 300Hz you list.
5) Any response would just be more speculation on my end, so I'll let that one be...
Not mentioned earlier are rental and resale prospects. This would be highly dependent on the intended use by the buyer, but it generally helps to stock inventory that people have heard of, let alone if needing any rider acceptance.
Also not mentioned are any acceptable listings of your products such MET/ETL/UL/etc.
You're welcome to not agree with me, though most of what I'm saying here isn't opinion. The fact is that over the past couple of years, ebay lights are getting better and cheaper all the time. Two years ago, it was hard to find something decent for under $100. Today, there are plenty of reasonable direct-from-China options that can be had for a fraction of that! No, they won't stand up to most name-brand fixtures, but for $35 I wouldn't expect it to! At the same time, name-brand manufacturers are also pushing the lower end of their inventory with very respectable options. Since you also sell name-brand fixtures, I know you can agree with what I say when I mention that your prices aren't too far off from the dealer cost of equivalent budget-name-brand fixtures.
Scott, I'm not attacking your company at all! Believe me, I'd love to find a seller that is able to offer quality fixtures at low prices! Aren't we all? The hesitation I have relating to everything above is what goes along with buying from a boutique dealer. That's not a bad thing, and this industry has several such manufacturers that have carved out a nice niche for themselves. The catch is, to make the baggage of sorts that accompanies buying from one worth it, they have to offer something that no one else sells, or, offer their product at a steep discount while still delivering acceptable quality and reliability. Nothing personal, but I just don't see that here when I'd only be saving 10 or 15% from a mainstream supplier. Seeing essentially crickets when the question is asked of who has actually uses your product, I'd dare say that I'm not alone in my view of the situation. And yes, I do think I have every right to chime into a discussion involving a supplier that I was interested in purchasing from... Thanks for your attention.
