No Booth?

I'm sure the dollar amount was made up. There's no guide for how much something like that would cost. It was created as a deterrent, just like when a mechanic doesn't want to work on your old car. If you pay them enough, they'll find another shop to outsource it to.

If a group of wheelchair users called a theatre or theater and said they needed accessible seating, the response would be the same as it is for an able bodied individual.
If the number of seats requested exceeds that in your party, your party will be split up among the days.

Good example - I worked for 6 summers in a 2000 seat amphitheater built in the 1920s. The top row and the front row each had about 10 wheelchair seats with a friend seat.
There is no amount of money that could be thrown at that theatre to allow more than 20 people, and the party will be split, 10 and 10.
The seats were bolted to wood benches with wood stairs with steel handrails sunk into the sloped cement underneath. I believe there were 30 rows which makes about 90 steps.
In other words, not possible.

Although I know nothing about rolling stock, I assume they're designed approximately like the local commuter trains I ride here in SF.
Those seats are bolted to the wall, underneath the wall facia so they can easily sweep and mop the entire train without chair legs getting in the way.
They have 669 cars and I presume about 10% are out of commission every day for maintenance.
If BART is anything like Amtrack, there is some dollar amount they could receive to make that one trip possible by removing/ retrofitting one car, but it would have to atleast pay the union wage for the guys for a week or two.

Although it's bad press for Amtrak and they could have made the statement more candy coated, it's not unreasonable.
 
Back to my original question though, what happens in theatre. There's usually only one row of seats thats level and those are already set aside. Is it like old folks with walkers? Just have them transfer?
 
Bill, if a group of wheel chair users called the group sales person at a theater, you can damn well bet that theater would find a way to accommodate the *sale*.
Sit together. Not different sections, just like not different train cars. Requiring removing seats.

In the case of AMTRAK, the good will they *could* have created would have cost a lot more to "buy" in the conventional ways.
Yes, as I said, the delivery sucked.


Nowhere did I say AMTRAK should do this for free, but at nearly 20x the price tag of their previous accommodation pricing it has terrible "optics".

They stated the cost. I'm sure there is a line itemed accounting. The previous charge is irrelevant. Congress is hounding Amtrak to stop burning through taxpayer money do they stop giving away things and get criticized. Classic rock and hard place conundrum.
 
If a group of wheelchair patrons called our theatre and it was larger than the number of wheelchair spaces available we would have to book them into several shows. We have a finite number of wheelchair spaces and cannot rebuild the auditorium, washrooms, and fire exits on a whim.

Reasonable - and there are 5 trains a day Chicago to Bloomington.

I consult with the Access Board, I'm a member of ANSI A117. 1 Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities committee, and I have supported - successfully - some requirements that colleagues feel are over reaching - all to minimize discrimination on account of disabilities. And I can assure you that making the balcony, control room, and orchestra pit accessible - usually three different elevators or lifts - is very expensive. (Because contrary to other multi-level buildings, you can't get to these 4 different levels with one elevator.) I debate the questions in the committees and it gets contentious, but whenever I show plans and photos of my designs, they are generally very well received, and usually exceed the minimum requirements in all regards. (Remember, meeting code is a letter grade of D- - just passing).) Where a theatre may serve a particularly disproportionate number of people with disabilities, like a high school in a neighborhood with a Veterans Hospital, I try to figure out a way to allow more accessible seating, like making whole first and last (of a section where level) rows easily removable.

I agree the $25,000 seems high but I really have no expertise in breaking up a train set, moving a car to a shop, getting a crew to modify it, moving back to train, and reconnecting it; and then all again to restore it. I'll bet it is many thousands though.
 
Amtrak caved. They run millions in deficits - what's a few more thousand. Maybe they can use it to get more taxpayer dollars.
 
Speaking of elevators, how much does an elevator cost that goes 1 floor? Assuming new construction/ a perfect world.
 
Speaking of elevators, how much does an elevator cost that goes 1 floor? Assuming new construction/ a perfect world.

A passenger elevator that goes to exactly one floor? Very little, and any carpenter could build one; indeed, I could build one myself.

If it goes between two or more floors? That's rather more expensive! :dance:

(Thank you very much, I'll be here all week...)
 
Many years ago the ballpark was $50,000 to $75,000 CAD for a hydraulic elevator. Structural and electrical work is extra as is the basic construction cost of the square footage the elevator occupies.
 
Just the cost of the actual elevator and installing the elevator. Zero frills.
@macsound
Up here North of the walls, one venue has a "normal" elevator in the lobby for the public.

Back stage, there is a bare bones 'vator on each side; one to access the dimmer and sound rack rooms (two different elevations) wardrobe (cutters and seamstresses) costume laundry, wardrobe storage and the fly floor. If you're a wheelchair bound arbor loader you're SOL.

On SL, a similar bare bones 'vator accesses two floors of offices and also one FOH Box Seating stall which could accommodate 3 wheelchair bound patrons if they're close friends (if they weren't before, they would be by intermission)

When it comes to costs: What makes the two 'bare bones' 'vators 'bare bones'?
Do NOT lean against the walls while elevating or descending; the floor, roof, rear wall and inner doors elevate: The side walls, both of them, DO NOT.
Up here, north of Donnie's walls, this complies with MINIMUM code.

How much does an elevator cost? Depends greatly upon what you're willing to accept. The public 'vator has in cab lighting and ventilation, an electrically operated emergency call bell, and a telephone.
The two "access" 'vator's back stage have a light in their cab and a mechanical emergency call bell but no fans, their ventilation is / are perforated steel ventilation grilles in their rear wall; there are no side walls to ventilate.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
Size and installation have a lot to do with it but in US$ - probably at least $35,000 and up to $50,000. Some owners don't want the kind with mechanism on the side - no hole - so that can affect. For orchestra pits and control rooms and some audience access, a LULA (Limited Use / Limited Application) can be less - one person in a chair and one companion. Maybe near $30,000 compete but less maintenance costs as well.

I'm often caught arguing for one that will take a costume rack or large console flat or even stock 4 X 8s -and that drives it up.
 
YES! LULA (Limited Use / Limited Application)
You found me a term to google with! Exactly what I was thinking of. Truly a barebones elevator. 4 walls and an automatic door. Just nothing snazzy. No voices, maybe an 80mm PC fan for ventilation. Fluorescent tube on the ceiling.

Tertiary question, in some theatres I've worked in, they had handicap lifts. Like those beige things with the ramp that flips down when you open the door.
They always had signs on them that said something about not being used to lift things, only people. They were also magically only located where you'd need to get a rolling rack up the stairs. Like an orchestra pit, sound room, laundry room. Pretty much all the locations Ron stated. Most of the time those situations ended up being a team lift, but if you were alone, you'd "break the rules" and roll your rack onto the lift.
So is the sign just a deterrent? Obviously my 200# rack was well within the weight limits of the lift since no one rode up with it.
Would these Lu/La elevators have the same "rules"?

Here's the theory behind the application. Turn a warehouse into a theatre. It's about 25' tall in the open space which takes up about 85% of the space. Off to the far side there are bathrooms downstairs and a glassed in office. Upstairs there are 4-5 offices. I'd like to put in an elevator for those offices. There would be the occasional person using the elevator but really it's because furniture is heavy. Is that frowned upon for these Lu/La elevators?
 
Well, I started routinely trying to make the control rooms and pits accessible since around 1990. When I visit, I make a point of asking about the use. I have not found one instance of person who uses a wheelchair having used them. They are frequently used for instruments - tympani and harps among others to pit - and for consoles and such to booth. I think that you would not have trouble unless the use of it for equipment somehow prevented or hindered its use for a person in a wheelchair. Kind of in that do you ever use a hammer without eye protection category. And you should always wear eye protection when hammering,and fall protection if on the edge of the stage and not otherwise protected.
 

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