No lifts or catwalk use at our School!

[beaglebob]

No lifts or catwalk use at our School!!!!!!!!!
They wont let kids on lifts or the catwalk. We have to wait for a director or school maintenance staff to focus lights ahhhhhh. The director really is not suppose be on the lift ether. As for the catwalk students use to be alowed up there it has railings and a ladder with a cage around it going up then they changed the rule a cupple a years ago blaaaa.

Just wondering what the rules are like at your school.

 

[venuetech]

then they changed the rule a cupple a years ago

likely after the insurance underwriter came for a visit.

 

[chrispo86]

Same at the school I do work at. No students (and really faculty other than facilities) are allowed up in the catwalk or the lifts. From what I understand students used to be allowed up there many years ago but then someone fell through the ceiling at a different high school nearby and since then nobody's allowed up there and it's rather strictly enforced. It's really quite obnoxious but administration is unrelenting, even if the proper safety precautions were to be taken. They just don't want to take the chance of someone getting hurt.

 

[LekoBoy]

No lifts or catwalk use at our School!!!!!!!!!
They wont let kids on lifts or the catwalk. We have to wait for a director or school maintenance staff to focus lights ahhhhhh. The director really is not suppose be on the lift ether. As for the catwalk students use to be alowed up there it has railings and a ladder with a cage around it going up then they changed the rule a cupple a years ago blaaaa.

Just wondering what the rules are like at your school.

Perhaps THEY feel students should spend more time in English class, rather than on a lift or catwalk, so as not to appear ignorent in public.

 

[shiben]

No lifts or catwalk use at our School!!!!!!!!!
They wont let kids on lifts or the catwalk. We have to wait for a director or school maintenance staff to focus lights ahhhhhh. The director really is not suppose be on the lift ether. As for the catwalk students use to be alowed up there it has railings and a ladder with a cage around it going up then they changed the rule a cupple a years ago blaaaa.

Just wondering what the rules are like at your school.

Do they allow english teachers in the classroom, because there is clearly a problem there too. I agree they probably had a visit from the Insurance guy who decided it would be unsafe for students to be up there. If you want stupid in a work situation, imagine that the people who own the building I work in truly think that is dangerous for someone who has not been trained to operate the thermostat. Not a lift, we can do that. The thermostat. Go figure that one out.

 

[MNicolai]

This is a common policy, be it OSHA or insurance-provider-enforced. Students are allowed on the catwalk, which has sufficient railings, but do not often go up there -- that's just the way things tend to play out. They are not allowed to use lifts. Only adults (ages 18 and older) who have completed the lift training may use lifts. Again, usually we don't have students focusing anyways in our main theatre. In our black box, students are often focusing, but everything is reachable by ladder anyways.

There are a couple times each year it's a little unfortunate we can't have students in the lifts, but it's not the a show stopper. It doesn't affect normal operations and the policies are really a non-issue for us. And when I say it doesn't affect normal operations, I mean we've got lights on in our theatres 338 days of the year this next season and despite most of those days being for school-related functions as well as several pro events a month, we'll get by without any problems.

When you say they "changed a rule" a couple years ago, I suspect what you really mean is the district finally became aware of what was going on. It wasn't that it ever explicitly allowed, just that the rules weren't being enforced, hadn't ever been thought about, or that they had been more clearly stated. Many districts are unaware that these sorts of things are going on until an admin sees a student in a lift or climbing up to the catwalk -- then they run around to the other admin and say, "What the ____ are we thinking, allowing students up there?!" Reality is, long before the school noticed, the insurance provider and OSHA had a much greater say in the matter, but they were also unaware of the problem.

For my last show, a parent at some party happened to work for the insurance provider and someone mentioned that we were building a pool for the next show and no sooner than a few days later we had a flood insurance policy put in place for the theatre. It's more about admin becoming aware of an existing problem than suddenly changing their minds about something they had previously considered okay -- most wouldn't have allowed students in a lift in the first place, but it's not exactly in their job description to think about that. When you're hired as a principal, nobody points at you and says, "Oh, by the way, our students are going 50' above the stage floor to access the weight floor in the theatre and toss counterweight around, and they're also getting in bucket and scissor lifts without fall arrest harnesses to focus lighting for the school play."

Out of sight, out of mind.

 

[len]

Do they allow english teachers in the classroom, because there is clearly a problem there too. I agree they probably had a visit from the Insurance guy who decided it would be unsafe for students to be up there. If you want stupid in a work situation, imagine that the people who own the building I work in truly think that is dangerous for someone who has not been trained to operate the thermostat. Not a lift, we can do that. The thermostat. Go figure that one out.

You might burn your fingers. My dad's house has a mercury thermostat. Imagine if that were still in a public space.

 

[DuckJordan]

Do they allow english teachers in the classroom, because there is clearly a problem there too. I agree they probably had a visit from the Insurance guy who decided it would be unsafe for students to be up there. If you want stupid in a work situation, imagine that the people who own the building I work in truly think that is dangerous for someone who has not been trained to operate the thermostat. Not a lift, we can do that. The thermostat. Go figure that one out.

This is because unlike home thermostats, industrial equipment isn't as forgiving and is quite a bit more expensive than the $300 AC/Heater most residential houses have. I've actually seen what can happen to those industrial HVAC systems when they are improperly used. Ex. Broken Fan blades, destroyed freyon tubes, and other issues that meant almost replacing the whole system.

Now on the subject of no one being allowed in the catwalk, There are a lot of places in the commercial world as well that wont allow anyone to go up to the catwalk without proper training and supervision. So instead of focusing on "oh my school is such a pain they wont let us do anything," this would be a good time to work on those light plot skills so when someone goes up to the catwalk to focus lights they know where they need to be.

 

[shiben]

You might burn your fingers. My dad's house has a mercury thermostat. Imagine if that were still in a public space.

Its a digital one, with a touch screen. One of the owners reps found me adjusgng it because it needed to be done, and they told me off on the grounds it was dangerous. Not because I might break it, but because I might hurt myself. I have no idea HOW, but whatever. At least a catwalk has a lot of ways you could potentially hurt yourself on or around it.

This is because unlike home thermostats, industrial equipment isn't as forgiving and is quite a bit more expensive than the $300 AC/Heater most residential houses have. I've actually seen what can happen to those industrial HVAC systems when they are improperly used. Ex. Broken Fan blades, destroyed freyon tubes, and other issues that meant almost replacing the whole system.

Not sure how I would hurt myself on a fan blade when im adjusting the temperature via 2 arrows, one labeled + and the other - under the heading of "temperature set", or possibly switching the system from "auto" to "on" to "off", but you know, im sure because its industrial there are lots of ways to break it that any given user could tap by accident. Seriously, it has 8 things you can adjust, 3 of them are duty cycle adjustments (on, off, auto), 2 are temperature related (temp higher, temp lower), and you can turn a timer on and off (three parameters, timer on/off, time set). If I can break something with this thermostat, it would shock me greatly. And I am positive that I dont need a factory level training course to use it safely, even if I could break something with it. I dont really care that much, I just find it silly that of all the things that could be dangerous in this venue, thats the thing they tell me off for.

 

[Shawncfer]

Back when I was in high school. We had a huge high school, (3500 students) and it was the only high school in the district. And NOBODY cared who was where. We had kids on a catwalk, A Frames, and Genie Lifts. In fact, one of those kids was the superintendents daughter. After I graduated from there I got hired at another school doing some lighting stuff. And I had a contract with the district and everyting saying I was an employee. But NO students were allowed on the genie or A frame. (catwalk yes). But when I first got on the genie there I had the superintendent of that district run up to me screaming that I was gonna get hurt and that students arent allowed on there and that only people who work for the district or are contracted by the district are allowed on there. Then he found out I was contracted by the district. He felt stupid.

 

[zmb]

I've been allowed in the catwalks before at my school district's PAC and it has full railings on the non-instrument side and a combination rail/batten on the other side that comes between my knees and hips. However, it is pretty much a if you need to be there, you can go area. Having focussed instruments and ran a followspot, it's been fine for me to go up, but I probably couldn't take people along to show them.

Would it be possible to fall off? Yes, if you were either lying down or crouched down very low.

 

[gcpsoundlight]

I was in a High School theatre (I don't go there, I was just working on the show) and I could go and do just about anything. What they said, which does make a lot of sence, is that if I felt comfortable and capable of doing something, I could do it, the first time with proper supervision.

I think this makes a lot of sence, especially in a situation where you are supposed to be teaching them about theatre. I know that insurance is very different in america compared to australia, but for me, that was a very good show to work on. about the only thing I couldn't do was operate the fly tower.

 

[mstaylor]

Many times, people making the rules are afraid of heights and assume anybody working at height is in grave danger. They don't understand how with proper instruction and proper safety devices it is perfectly safe. I would rather see a kid in a vertical manlift than an A frame. I wouldn't be inclined to allow kids in a scissor lift, too many variables for a teenager.

 

[zmb]

I would have to agree with mstaylor about the people that make the rules often don't understand the situation.

To put something in perspective, view the picture to see how high I was off the ground:

Is there any government regulation against that? Other than the business license for the company I was out, probably not. Was I in a situation without proper supervision and training able to die? Yes.

Bugs me to see that I can be kept from using a man lift compelete fiberglass bucket that you would have to try to get out of by raising the safety railing and climbing out.

Just to let you know, I do have a personal sling going from my climbing harness to webbing tied around a tree when I took that picture today (August 12th).

 

[DuckJordan]

I would have to agree with mstaylor about the people that make the rules often don't understand the situation.

To put something in perspective, view the picture to see how high I was off the ground:

Is there any government regulation against that? Other than the business license for the company I was out, probably not. Was I in a situation without proper supervision and training able to die? Yes.

Bugs me to see that I can be kept from using a man lift compelete fiberglass bucket that you would have to try to get out of by raising the safety railing and climbing out.

Just to let you know, I do have a personal sling going from my climbing harness to webbing tied around a tree when I took that picture today (August 12th).

the only problem that comes to mind is while yes, you were in a situation where you could have fallen and died, You did this of your own free will. Not because you were working on a project for either a school or your job but as recreation. This frees both the school and business from being sued. So while there are no gov. regulations in place about you (of your own accord) standing dangerously close it an edge, while at work there has to be some form of regulation so that businesses and schools can be held liable for what happens to you and pay the bills that come with such issues.

 

[gafftaper]

The truth is there are a lot of Scary old School catwalks out there that NOBODY should go up in without proper training and harness. The high school I used to teach at was amazingly dangerous. To get to the catwalks you had to climb a 25'+ ladder with no safety cage and no life line. When you reached the top you had to crawl because the ceiling was less than 3' from the top of the ladder. You crawled out onto a metal "plank" 2' wide. Within 10' the ceiling sloped up high enough that you could stand. However, the metal plank came and went. Some places you were on a 12" wide metal plank, other places you were on a wood 2x12, other places you had to walk on the HVAC ducts or the 6" wide structural Steel. This was all 30'+ off the floor. No hand rails and only a 1/2" of plaster and chicken wire to prevent you from falling to your death. No one cared that I had students up there working. I tried very hard to supervise and keep them safe but looking back on it now with a few years of wisdom and experience it was a TERRIBLE environment that should have been shut down. Plus it was probably full of asbestos... but that's another rant.

That school isn't unique. At least I was supervising. There are many schools far more dangerous out there where no one knows what the students are doing. It's only a matter of time until the OSHA guy or the district's risk management people get wind of these places. It's sad when students don't get to do tech work because of changes in policy, but it's more important that they don't fall to their death.

 

[photoatdv]

Was at a school the other week (with a outside renter) and was actually rather glad to learn that they hired the crew instead of using students :-S. It doesn't beat yours Gaff, and I consider it acceptablish for a professional theatre, but no way for a high school. Basically you'd pretty much have to be trying to fall, or doing something like horsing around with friends, trying to reach too far, climbing the railings, ect... pretty much anything students tend to do.

 

[mstaylor]

In our school district students are allowed to use the catwalks, lifts and scaffolds, provided there is adult supervision. However, they aren't allowed to run any of the boards, lights or sound. As a matter of fact outside contractors can't run the light boards without approval by the school.

 

[Tex]

However, they aren't allowed to run any of the boards, lights or sound.

This is one of the most absurd things I've ever heard. Imagine a business class trying to learn Microsoft Office without being able to touch the keyboard or mouse. Insane...
Fortunately, my catwalks are easily reachable via stairs and have the required rail spacing and kickplates. We have both a man lift and scissor lift, but I don't know if I'm able to use them or have kids on them.

 

[zuixro]

The truth is there are a lot of Scary old School catwalks out there that NOBODY should go up in without proper training and harness. The high school I used to teach at was amazingly dangerous. To get to the catwalks you had to climb a 25'+ ladder with no safety cage and no life line. When you reached the top you had to crawl because the ceiling was less than 3' from the top of the ladder. You crawled out onto a metal "plank" 2' wide. Within 10' the ceiling sloped up high enough that you could stand. However, the metal plank came and went. Some places you were on a 12" wide metal plank, other places you were on a wood 2x12, other places you had to walk on the HVAC ducts or the 6" wide structural Steel. This was all 30'+ off the floor. No hand rails and only a 1/2" of plaster and chicken wire to prevent you from falling to your death. No one cared that I had students up there working. I tried very hard to supervise and keep them safe but looking back on it now with a few years of wisdom and experience it was a TERRIBLE environment that should have been shut down. Plus it was probably full of asbestos... but that's another rant.

That school isn't unique. At least I was supervising. There are many schools far more dangerous out there where no one knows what the students are doing. It's only a matter of time until the OSHA guy or the district's risk management people get wind of these places. It's sad when students don't get to do tech work because of changes in policy, but it's more important that they don't fall to their death.

Wow, I'm not really afraid of heights, but there is no way I would go up there.