No more GrandMasters on ETC consoles
- Thread startergbdesign
- Start date
You all realize there is a whole generation of programmers who have been brought up totally on programmer based console that have no idea why the hell you would want any of this stuff? Split faders? GM? Blackout button? All of this stuff is just holdovers from the way people used to light... we don't do that anymore. Every fader can be a cue stack. Every fader and control whatever you want. Why hold that crap over.
@Footer Please assure @ship and I that gas valves and limelight are gone forever along with brine dimmers where the fly-persons relieved themselves to adjust the salinity. What about bag lines, five hundred pound sand bags and sandboxes where the theatre cats relieved themselves?? You wouldn't kid a geezer would you?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
Times are a changing. Imagine how our forefather's we trained from would think about our "Progress." A panic'd call from the Stage Manager' "Stop" "Go back" not ready yet she is adding dialogue. Let's go to scene 123.5 she skipped a scene and has gone to this one. Go to scene 50, she remembered part of it... Our teachers lived with that in lever lock dimmers.
I remember years ago one of the most interesting and sad plays Ertha Kitt (Cat Woman) did as per her doing "Lady Day" a history about Billie Holiday. Both were Brilliant in talent, Ertha used to skip around a lot in the script, though each night's performance was while unique... quality art in theater and music. The above though details in control channels are just examples of almost every night challenges in unique control at the last minute. Again art was made every night by a Wonderful actress portraying one of her friends! Strayed a lot from the script.
Our job, Stage Manager, and mine - Light Board Operater to assist the talent and not question where she wanted to take the performance. Believe this even in having a "Magic Sheet" so as to bring up other lighting on need not in cue.
It is good to know all the past generation tools we had to master are obsolete now. Suspect somewhat similar to stage right 1st balconaly rail lever actuated dimmers which followed the show by cue, and could easily switch from one to another. Not as easily of course swith between cues or go back etc. But you know progress and such control means are no longer needed.
Ah' the days with the pre-Clear Com, phone operator plastic headsets - not designed for comfort... more about the ability with a booster to energize the carbon in them to hear something from back stage. Just plastic - no padding. Painful by the end of the night.
I remember years ago one of the most interesting and sad plays Ertha Kitt (Cat Woman) did as per her doing "Lady Day" a history about Billie Holiday. Both were Brilliant in talent, Ertha used to skip around a lot in the script, though each night's performance was while unique... quality art in theater and music. The above though details in control channels are just examples of almost every night challenges in unique control at the last minute. Again art was made every night by a Wonderful actress portraying one of her friends! Strayed a lot from the script.
Our job, Stage Manager, and mine - Light Board Operater to assist the talent and not question where she wanted to take the performance. Believe this even in having a "Magic Sheet" so as to bring up other lighting on need not in cue.
It is good to know all the past generation tools we had to master are obsolete now. Suspect somewhat similar to stage right 1st balconaly rail lever actuated dimmers which followed the show by cue, and could easily switch from one to another. Not as easily of course swith between cues or go back etc. But you know progress and such control means are no longer needed.
Ah' the days with the pre-Clear Com, phone operator plastic headsets - not designed for comfort... more about the ability with a booster to energize the carbon in them to hear something from back stage. Just plastic - no padding. Painful by the end of the night.
I remember those days well...ears on fire, and shooting pain to the touch...
I miss these things not...
Sean.......
I remember those days well...ears on fire, and shooting pain to the touch...
I miss these things not...
Sean.......
@ship and @Scarrgo Painful to wear they may have been but they had two plusses:
1; When your mic's sensitivity began to decline, you could unplug your headset, beat the heck out of the mic' on the closest durable surface (to loosen the compacted carbon granules) re-plug and keep on truckin'. (Despised were the individuals who improved their mic's sensitivity prior to first unplugging their headsets.)
2; The plugs were wired so you could plug them in either way with zero problems:
The carbon mic's were wired to the two tips and the dynamic earpieces to the two rings.
Good old Ma Bell all the way and parts? Parts were no problem at all, with commonly replaced items available from stock at your nearest Bell depot and less common parts always available within two weeks notice.
And then came the lads from California with their portable systems designed to assemble with commonly available microphone cables carried in depth by any worthwhile tour and then nobody who was anybody wanted to be tethered by a cable, comms HAD to be wireless, even users who sat behind a desk in a wing and / or on a chair behind their lighting or automation console HAD to have a wireless headset.
Give me a break: Wireless comms, wireless mic's, wireless guitars, wireless trumpets, wireless keyboards, wireless violins, wireless tap-shoes, wireless clogs, wireless in ear monitors, wireless DMX, wireless sound and lighting remotes, wireless mice, wireless computer keyboards, wireless phones, wireless home automation systems, fridges that order your groceries, DMX controlled coffee pots, wireless, WIRELESS, WIRELESS!
I'll crawl back in my cave now. Rant off. Geezer out!
(What ever happened to horse drawn carts, the pony express, steam locomotives, Sherpas and divers who collected pearls and sponges without tanks, or rebreathers?)
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
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Getting ready to work with a 1924 horse drawn scenery carriage delivery theater within margine of date for horse drawn carts. "Just have to rent a fork lift for every show." Why were dock doors like 10' above the alley height in the early century frequent to thaters? Even a horse drawn wagon wouldn't be that high in problems for probably generations in conveying scenery to the stage. Certainly couldn't be about the windows or architectural height for perspective and not always used windows. Something I don't get in why so high rear of stage dock doors.
But onto the issue (but way cool history on headsets conceived and saved now in history of com gear/Clear Com future generations can pull up from presented for their own knowledge as opposed to some black holes I frequently run into on old light history.) My post was to note how it might be difficult on modern light boards which loose these features in citing an example. On the other hand, programming is different, and in citing the pre-our generation light board lever lock systems, just as they couldn't imagine our generations light boards working, perhaps it's similar. In above play, savy computer like people could even now program in trigger words from microphone for a scene to self "go", or a kid in being better on computers can handle such a situation perhaps just as well on the new different concepts for what was hard for us given a far different operation system. Starting to learn such a ting on my part.
Very rare challenge for me today... Normally I fly a desk/magnifying glass/computer in tracking bad moving light lamps or ordering parts, and supervise my cable/conventional fixture/Followspot Repair/Special Lighting Projects Fabrication for Lighting department.
But onto the issue (but way cool history on headsets conceived and saved now in history of com gear/Clear Com future generations can pull up from presented for their own knowledge as opposed to some black holes I frequently run into on old light history.) My post was to note how it might be difficult on modern light boards which loose these features in citing an example. On the other hand, programming is different, and in citing the pre-our generation light board lever lock systems, just as they couldn't imagine our generations light boards working, perhaps it's similar. In above play, savy computer like people could even now program in trigger words from microphone for a scene to self "go", or a kid in being better on computers can handle such a situation perhaps just as well on the new different concepts for what was hard for us given a far different operation system. Starting to learn such a ting on my part.
Very rare challenge for me today... Normally I fly a desk/magnifying glass/computer in tracking bad moving light lamps or ordering parts, and supervise my cable/conventional fixture/Followspot Repair/Special Lighting Projects Fabrication for Lighting department.
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robmerow
Active Member
Its hard for me to imagine a circumstance where if all goes according to plan you would ever need a GM.
Any cued show shouldn't use it.
A well-busked show would have multiple stacks or submasters to do the same thing but with more flexibility.
MAYBE as a part of shut down procedure, but even then there may be fixtures intentionally setup to not affected by the GM for one reason or another.
Any cued show shouldn't use it.
A well-busked show would have multiple stacks or submasters to do the same thing but with more flexibility.
MAYBE as a part of shut down procedure, but even then there may be fixtures intentionally setup to not affected by the GM for one reason or another.
Jay Ashworth
Well-Known Member
Amateur dance recital, dance teacher backstage realizing wrong music for piece, is now screaming “TAKE THE LIGHTS OUT, TAKE THE LIGHTS OUT, TAKETHE.....” SM calmly translates to “BLACKOUT !”.
When you do 2 of these a weekend in June, plus 8 more rehearsals in May, the GM is a fader you cannot live without.
Jay Ashworth
Well-Known Member
And I can tell you as a UI designer, the fact that the GM is in a separate, specific, non-moving place that you don't have to look at a label for is *critical* to such uses.
Yes, Footer; I'm talkin'a you.
If you really need a GM then set aside a bottom corner fader as GM on every page and there it is, ready to go, in the same place every time. If it's something I really, really, have to have then it's probably a button on a magic sheet, likely linked to QLab to "panic" the sound playback at the same time.
My workflow for dance rentals is to
My workflow for dance rentals is to
- Get the audio in advance and drop it into QLab.
- Get the choreographer's wishes about their routine along with information about the routine (group/solo/duet/trio, age/experience level, costume colour)
- Grab a suitable preset from the library that has built up over the years and drop it in a cue list as a base look. Build any noted transitions.
- Sort out the start sequence: Do dancers start onstage or off? Do they end on stage (pose) or off?
- Link the first lighting cue to QLab to start the music on the first go.
- Walk through the show with the renter, making adjustments as desired.
- Sometimes I get a rehearsal, sometimes not. It doesn't matter because having worked with the dance studio on steps 1 and 2 with a sanity check at step 6 takes a lot of stress out of the event on both sides of the rental agreement.
Jay Ashworth
Well-Known Member
Jay Ashworth
Well-Known Member
That's not germane to my argument, as you know.
DavidJones
Well-Known Member
Flexibility is all the rage now. Want a GM? Great, put it wherever the hell you want it. Want a manual crossfade? Again put it where ever you want it; but why not just program that into your cues? I get that usually added features can be ignored by legacy users, like magic sheets, layouts, macros, etc, but with moving hardware that has always been there, people have to make some changes to their workflow. Have a problem with that? Well, go join the unemployment line with all the audio guys who refused to switch to digital ten years ago.
ETC- No GM
MA3- No GM
Hell even the Hog iPC had no dedicated GM and that was like 20 years ago.
Please don't be offended by this, but "events" being unpredictable and NEEDING a GM is an excuse for not being prepared and not programing a proper show. I always focus and program a full stage wash, even if the client swears they only want a special on the lectern, I always program a "video look" even if there is no video. Always assume someone will walk up in front of the stage rather than on it to make an announcement or receive an award. Does the client insist on using ONE stack to be perfectly called by the stage manager? I always have several faders to override the cues stack for when there is a surprise award, or they invite an audience member to talk. Lighting for IMAG is assigned to inhibitive masters, especially backlight, for when that bald guy with the waxed head comes on stage, etc, etc, etc.
You do more than a few events, and "unpredictable" become unorganized, unscripted, and out of order. I may not know when, but I can predict that some of these things will happen at some point.
----Side note, I'm just voicing my honest opinion, and I am a blunt person who does not sugar coat things. The new Grammarly "tone detector" thinks this post has an overwhelmingly disapproving tone.
ETC- No GM
MA3- No GM
Hell even the Hog iPC had no dedicated GM and that was like 20 years ago.
Please don't be offended by this, but "events" being unpredictable and NEEDING a GM is an excuse for not being prepared and not programing a proper show. I always focus and program a full stage wash, even if the client swears they only want a special on the lectern, I always program a "video look" even if there is no video. Always assume someone will walk up in front of the stage rather than on it to make an announcement or receive an award. Does the client insist on using ONE stack to be perfectly called by the stage manager? I always have several faders to override the cues stack for when there is a surprise award, or they invite an audience member to talk. Lighting for IMAG is assigned to inhibitive masters, especially backlight, for when that bald guy with the waxed head comes on stage, etc, etc, etc.
You do more than a few events, and "unpredictable" become unorganized, unscripted, and out of order. I may not know when, but I can predict that some of these things will happen at some point.
----Side note, I'm just voicing my honest opinion, and I am a blunt person who does not sugar coat things. The new Grammarly "tone detector" thinks this post has an overwhelmingly disapproving tone.
Jay Ashworth
Well-Known Member
> Please don't be offended by this, but "events" being unpredictable and NEEDING a GM is an excuse for not being prepared and not programing a proper show.
I'm not offended by it. It's simply not true.
"Programming a proper show" carries inside it the idea that *we know what's going to happen*.
That's often completely untrue, and not capable of being made true.
I'm not offended by it. It's simply not true.
"Programming a proper show" carries inside it the idea that *we know what's going to happen*.
That's often completely untrue, and not capable of being made true.
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DavidJones
Well-Known Member
If that's that case, personally I wouldn't do those shows. I won't intentionally put myself in a position where failure is a likely outcome. That's just poor planning on someone's part and has nothing to do with equipment.
