No more GrandMasters on ETC consoles

Please don't be offended by this, but "events" being unpredictable and NEEDING a GM is an excuse for not being prepared and not programing a proper show. I
:)

No excuse. Yes, of course, that’s the answer.

Sometimes the event is performing on the margins of profit that prohibits a proper rehearsal where you can set in all the cues and do enough rehearsals to never need something as archaic as an unexpected blackout. Oh, to live in such a perfect world !. Maybe in my next life.
 
As a client, if your' entire ability to successfully run my show is predicated on the existence of a permanently fixed grandmaster on a desk, then I'm looking elsewhere for an LD.

Remarkable coincidence. If you were the LD and didn’t understand that things go wrong and sometimes the console operator needs the tools to respond to those moments, well it would be classic question of was he fired, or did he quit ?
 
If that's that case, personally I wouldn't do those shows. I won't intentionally put myself in a position where failure is a likely outcome. That's just poor planning on someone's part and has nothing to do with equipment.

I'm a subcontractor for a house that rents out. I don't have any choice in the matter, in the real work; events are what they are; you cover them.
 
No excuse. Yes, of course, that’s the answer.

Sometimes the event is performing on the margins of profit that prohibits a proper rehearsal where you can set in all the cues and do enough rehearsals to never need something as archaic as an unexpected blackout. Oh, to live in such a perfect world !. Maybe in my next life.

Oh, to live in a world where everything was scripted and *could be* rehearsed.
 
I disabled my GM 7 years ago. Only needed it maybe 3 times since. Inhibitors and macros that fade inhibitors by fixture type, work for my live playback style. I can always control fixtures in banks with inhibitors. the primary GM just takes up too much real estate when a magic sheet button can do the same thing or target something more specific. Just my opinion.
 
As a client, if your' entire ability to successfully run my show is predicated on the existence of a permanently fixed grandmaster on a desk, then I'm looking elsewhere for an LD.

I don’t think you’re understanding the concept that you provide the tools that *might* be necessary for the console op to make use of in the event something doesn’t go as planned. Actor skips a whole page (it’s been known to happen) and now the operator is using “Go to Cue” and “Time” buttons. Actor falls into a trap and the SM needs the lights off immediately. This has nothing to do with your LD skills in plotting a perfect show, but in the real world, crap happens and you need to adapt. If you don’t get that, find a different career.
 
Technology has changed. The concepts of us elders is different in controlling such a situation. Solved or Not! Interesting discussion.
 
I don’t think you’re understanding the concept that you provide the tools that *might* be necessary for the console op to make use of in the event something doesn’t go as planned. Actor skips a whole page (it’s been known to happen) and now the operator is using “Go to Cue” and “Time” buttons. Actor falls into a trap and the SM needs the lights off immediately. This has nothing to do with your LD skills in plotting a perfect show, but in the real world, crap happens and you need to adapt. If you don’t get that, find a different career.
Maybe I'm just slow on the uptake, but couldn't you just pull down the fader that the cued stack is running off of? I do this all the time on MA, not sure if ETC has some kind of reason not to.

Alternate approach - an inhibitor handle with everything in it is a whole lot like a grand master.
 
Maybe I'm just slow on the uptake, but couldn't you just pull down the fader that the cued stack is running off of? I do this all the time on MA, not sure if ETC has some kind of reason not to.

Alternate approach - an inhibitor handle with everything in it is a whole lot like a grand master.

No to the fader pair, that just sets the next cue to manual till you move the fader pair up.

As noted in prior posts, there are options to no physical GM, a fader wing with a slider set to GM or Inhibit, or a virtual fader on a touch screen.
 
Maybe I'm just slow on the uptake, but couldn't you just pull down the fader that the cued stack is running off of? I do this all the time on MA, not sure if ETC has some kind of reason not to.

Alternate approach - an inhibitor handle with everything in it is a whole lot like a grand master.
@irked We employed EXACTLY that technique on a Strand Q file back in 1973 (it was one of only 3 in Canada at the time)
We were in the midst of hosting a 5 or 6 day film shoot (not for a local event but a few scenes for an 'A' level LA based production.)
To the point: All 80 channels were in use powering all 80 six Kw dimmers plus all 6 Non-Dims were powering things like 'high speed color wheels', old style 45 gallon heated water drum dry ice foggers:
Bottom Line: Everything was preset for the next morning's 10:00 a.m. shoot (which was to continue from exactly where last night's shoot ended.)
Department Heads were last out shortly after 1:00 a.m.
All 80 channels were pulled to zero. All six Non-Dims were switched off.
This was in the days when your security guard walked around your entire venue every hour toting one of those big old Simplex contraptions recording the precise time he visited any /all locations, inserted a special key chained to the wall, inserted it into his portable time clock and moved on to his next location.
Two theatre venue, four story lobby, time clock "keys": (only as I remember them, by no means neither an all inclusive list nor in any specific order)
Stage door entrance
Main venue entrances
Main venue box office
Multiple fire exits
Studio theatre box office.
Main venue LX booth
Studio venue LX booth
Main venue spot and projection booths (a suite of six rooms including a roof hatch fire escape door with a separate "key" to prove he'd been there.
First aid room.
FOH manager's office (to ensure the safe hadn't been 'burgled') this was in the era of all cash transactions [no cards with mag' stripes to swipe]

You've got the picture.
Imagine how startled the overnight guard was when he checked the main venue at 4 or 5 a.m. to find every lamp in the place, house lights included, at 100% plus 4 high-speed colour wheels on 8" one K leko's spinning their hearts out PLUS four 45 gallon foggers pre-loaded with dry ice spewing out fog as fast as their fans coud push it out.
I still remember the gentleman's name: Roy was approximately 66 or 67 freshly retired from his life-long employer and, to his STARTLED eyes, there must've been a break in, he's alone in the building, no entrance alarms had sounded, neither had any fire alarms (smoke detectors weren't common devices in 1973)
and here was a 2183 seat theatre TOTALLY engulfed in fog with every light in the place piercing through it and four high-speed wheels spinning throuth 6 or 8 colors as fast as they could.
WHAT HAD HAPPENED: A power companie's overnight switching transient had caused only the SLIGHTEST of blinks in all of the night lights in the building
BUT it was all it took to convince the Q-File and House light control panels into powering EVERYTHING to 100%.

I realize technology has moved on APPRECIABLY since 1973.

Having said my piece; I'll crawl back into my cave.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
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I think Q-file was a Kleigl product, not Strand, made by Thorn in UK.
And you would be correct. In 1973. Strand was a British company. On your side of Donnie's walls, the amalgamation was called Century Strand. On my side north of the walls the amalgamation was known as Strand Century (Canada being one of the "colonies" at the time.)
When Strand was pressured to provide full bore / cutting edge (analog wire per dimmer) memory console installations to Canada, the desk, and its associated two or three 23" (Not 19") were basically a re-badged marriage of Thorn and Strand bits 'n pieces with manuals labeled "IDM Cue" (Instant Dimmer Memory Cue")
The 100 Six KW + 6 Non-Dim x 200-ish twenty Amp and 17 fifty Amp telco-style Hard patch was totally fabricated (Punch presses, bending brakes, welders and all) In Strand Century's northern Toronto head office on Viscount Road near Toronto's Malton airport.
In the basement: The 5 racks housing the 100 six Kw dimmers, along with a 7th rack housing the 20 house light dimmers and a 6th rack in between housing the 1,200 Amp 3 pole motorized main breaker for the stage lighting + the 400 Amp, non-motorized main breaker for the house lights.
The actual dimmers, both stage and house, were re-badged dimmers from the U.S. division; thus Century dimmers re-badged as Century Strand while all of the metal work was totally custom fabricated and pre-wired in the same Century Strand shop on Viscount Road where the Hard-Patch was built.

Bottom
Line: We're BOTH correct. I suspect @Ron Foley could confirm all of the above, I believe Mr. Foley began his career with Strand when he graduated from high-school and began working in Century Strand's fabrication shop. When I was last face to face with Mf. Foley, he was commissioning and servicing Century Strand installations from Ontario all the way east to Prince Edward Island and likely with Newfoundland tossed in for good measure.
To tie this back to my starting point:
I believe there were only three installations of Strand Century's IDM Cue consoles in Canada; In some order:
The National Arts Centre in Ottawa, The Stratford Festival's main stage in Stratford and Hamilton Place in Hamilton, Ontario.
In Hamilton's Hamilton Place, our four stories of Lobby Dimmers were another custom fabricated black rack housing a line of architectural dimmers which were nearly identical to a series of Green racks marketed with stage lighting in mind. If you whip me hard enough, I can probably name the model of the stage series dimmers; there were at least three such racks in my immediate area.
More than you ever wanted to know about the history of Strand on our side of Donnie's walls.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
One positive I see coming out of this is that it will make it more difficult for board ops/production staff to flicker the lights as a means to communicate that the show is about to start. I hate that and think it looks tacky.

Otherwise, as a community theatre TD, there are a few times when the GM is useful - for example an "on-the-fly" show where there is a video in the middle. In that case, it's really useful to have a GM to pull down. Especially when you have inexperienced board ops and it's the only "cue" in the show. I also have a board op who likes to use the GM to check to make sure that all the worklights are off prior to house opening. I could see her missing it. Otherwise, there are always workaround. All of which require punching more buttons, as usual.
 
And you would be correct. In 1973. Strand was a British company.
Ron Hebbard

On a tangent but @ron, curious if you all up north ever saw the "next generation" of Strand computer consoles, namely Multi-Q and Micro-Q, both manufactured in the US, against the wishes of the parent UK company, if I recall. Mid 70's or so.
 
Or both incorrect, and it's neither Strand not Kleigl, but Thorn. System integration before we knew what that is.
I can't recall anyone ever tossing Kleigl into the mix, neither verbally nor in print; Strand Canada openly referred to the console as the Century Strand Q-file; within the accompanying manuals they explained its / their affiliation with Thorn. The manuals accompanying the dimmers were fairly vague; extremely thorough in terms of parts lists, procedures for trimming, service / maintenance concerns but sans any specific info' when it came to who manufactured them or where.

The dimmer racks themselves were totally fabricated in Strand's Canadian head office / shops, AND proudly indelibly labelled as such.
The racks were designed, manufactured and wired specifically to contain, support, power and ventilate the 100 six KW "works in a drawer" slip in modules.
The non-specifically identified dimmer modules slid into their CLEARLY identified Century Strand Canada racks.
Them's my memories and I stands behind them.
Enjoy your winter south of Donnie's walls.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
On a tangent but @ron, curious if you all up north ever saw the "next generation" of Strand computer consoles, namely Multi-Q and Micro-Q, both manufactured in the US, against the wishes of the parent UK company, if I recall. Mid 70's or so.
@SteveB Most definitely YES but not many of them. A member [Nigel Romeril] of my home local (IA 129) toured for years as the head electrician with Canada's national ballet ( NBC, the National Ballet of Canada if you prefer their OFFICIAL title ) When Nigel first signed on with the National, they were still lugging piano boards and / or a ramshackle collection of dimmers from various rental houses. Within 2 to 3 years, Century Strand Canada were PROUDLY telling the world that they STRAND (in big print in many publications) had just completed the sale of their new, bleeding edge, Multi-Q (I believe it was, [one or the other] )
The next time the National toured through Hamilton, all who were interested were haranguing Nigel to: See his new toy, understand how it worked, what it did / could do, yada, yada, you've got the picture. I'd better not call @Ron Foley 's attention to this (Ron Hebbard says with his tongue firmly in his cheek).
Nigel initially found it difficult to cajole the new board to deliver the quality / smoothness / low level performance of their old Piano boards / Resistance dimmers and then; once finagled and finessed, it was purportedly difficult / finicky / persnickety to maintain stability / reliable / repeatable performance in a touring (out of a warm theatre, into a frigid cold trailer, bumped from province to province in the dead of winter, into a warm theatre, then expected to perform flawlessly.) application.

I recall Nigel handling it with Kidd gloves, rolling it directly into a star dressing room where it could warm up with ZERO risks of anyone rolling a case into it, hitting it with an incoming fly pipe, setting their coffee on it, yada, yada. Tom Taylor was our head electrician and it was a BIG DEAL to take Tom into the star room to "see" Nigel's new toy but touching or powering it was still out of the question until:
a; It had acclimatized.
b; It had been gingerly carried from the nearby Star room and gently placed on a rolling case that was to serve as Nigel's home base for their two or three day stay.
Once it was in location, powered, and Nige' was ready to take his chances, Nigel himself was the only one allowed to run up channels while the LD called her / his focus.
Bottom Line: It may have been promoted as "bleeding edge" but it was definitely being treated akin to platinum, afforded the full wank Royal treatment and most of the bleeding edge blood lost was Nigel's WHEN, not if, it exhibited any manner of fault / flaw / instability / intermittent / non-repeatable performance.
Have I 'strayed' within the boundaries of politeness? (Have I conveyed "it was a piece of excrement" without saying it was a pile of steaming manure?
Oh; I'd better hope @Ron Foley never stumbles across this post by accident.
More than enough said: @SteveB Have I adequately answered your query? [If we ever meet: Ask me how I really feel.]
P.S. This would've been 1974 / 5; mid seventies as you mentioned.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
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Ron: I've never heard it be anything except Strand Century.

Everyone else: making a random operator *search for the GM fader* *in a situation where they need a GM fader* violates the Principle of Least Astonishment with the highest degree of thoroughness I believe I've ever seen in 35 years of systems analysis.

It's almost never a Planned Fade control.

It's an Oh crap handle.
 

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