Off-brand swage tool

It's not that surprising when you realize many people use wire rope cable for things that are not lifted over anyone's heads. It's also worthless if it doesn't come with a go/no-go gauge.

One of those things that's more risk with almost no reward.
 
It actually does come with a go/no-go gauge. I'm aware that it sort of like comparing name brand hand or power tools to say something from Harbor Freight. That being said-I've been able to find certain off brand tools that do the job as well as name brand. The Arm appears to be made in Japan for whatever that is worth.
 
Never seen that one, but it really isn't much cheaper than the Locoloc tool which is around $160 and totally legit. Comparing to Nicopress would be a different story. I don't know why theirs are so pricey.

Maybe something to think about is easy availability of sleeves. There's a thread somewhere about mixing manufacturers that seemed to conclude it shouldn't be a functional issue, but nevertheless if your cable termination fails and you used Loos or Nicopress sleeves with this other tool then you might find neither company stands behind its product in that scenario and it's all on you regardless of otherwise correct installation.
 
I'm having some trouble finding any information about the company that manufactures the tool and their sleeves. If I was hanging things at 20:1 that are not over the audience this might be worth it (A situation I run into more often than you'd think), but in a shop where I might make stingers for traditional 10:1 overhead rigging the danger of someone grabbing this swage tool on accident would be way more than the financial savings. 1/16" - 3/16" is not exactly a normal rigging size so it might be easy to differentiate between this questionable tool and more trusted ones, but unless you rarely do rigging and it is only for non-overhead situations I would call the few hundred bucks for a nicopress tool to be the cheapest insurance policy you can buy.
 
porkchop said:
I'm having some trouble finding any information about the company that manufactures the tool and their sleeves. If I was hanging things at 20:1 that are not over the audience this might be worth it (A situation I run into more often than you'd think), but in a shop where I might make stingers for traditional 10:1 overhead rigging the danger of someone grabbing this swage tool on accident would be way more than the financial savings. 1/16" - 3/16" is not exactly a normal rigging size so it might be easy to differentiate between this questionable tool and more trusted ones, but unless you rarely do rigging and it is only for non-overhead situations I would call the few hundred bucks for a nicopress tool to be the cheapest insurance policy you can buy.
Click to expand...
@porkchop Would you mind posting a few comments on copper Vs. aluminum sleeves? I've always felt better about copper but used whatever the boss was providing. (Purportedly he was purchasing his sleeves from an "expert".) We were working in the range of 1/8" to 3/8", never larger.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
porkchop said:
I'm having some trouble finding any information about the company that manufactures the tool and their sleeves. If I was hanging things at 20:1 that are not over the audience this might be worth it (A situation I run into more often than you'd think), but in a shop where I might make stingers for traditional 10:1 overhead rigging the danger of someone grabbing this swage tool on accident would be way more than the financial savings. 1/16" - 3/16" is not exactly a normal rigging size so it might be easy to differentiate between this questionable tool and more trusted ones, but unless you rarely do rigging and it is only for non-overhead situations I would call the few hundred bucks for a nicopress tool to be the cheapest insurance policy you can buy.
Click to expand...

http://www.armsangyo.co.jp/cgi-bin/arm/special/htswsc.html?mv_arg=52

Here's the manufacturer. Looks like a legitimate company in Japan, with a simple but transparent website and an actual individual person's contact info for questions. Among their offerings are multiple swaging and wire rope cutting tools, and they make their own sleeves, and they say they only guarantee their swagers when used with their sleeves, which to me says they're not a fly-by-night operation. I only saw what looked like either aluminum or zinc plated copper sleeves in product photos on this site, but I saw kits for sale elsewhere with both copper and aluminum options.

What's a bit of a red flag is that OP's link lists a very very low price compared to anywhere else I see, where this tool is more in line with the Loos and Nicopress. Makes me wonder a little about that particular seller, but the tool itself seems fine to me. Something to be said for buying from a domestic maker I suppose, but other than that it all seems reasonable. I'd just want to hold one in my hands and also talk with the seller and maker since they're new to me.
 
RonHebbard said:
@porkchop Would you mind posting a few comments on copper Vs. aluminum sleeves? I've always felt better about copper but used whatever the boss was providing. (Purportedly he was purchasing his sleeves from an "expert".) We were working in the range of 1/8" to 3/8", never larger.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
Click to expand...
In a word, no. I've never seen the swage be the failure point and I certainly haven't looked into it enough to know if the difference if real or superstition, but with an appropriate safety factor any high quality sleeves should do the job when used properly. In my opinion if you're close enough to the limit that copper vs aluminum matters then you should probably go up in diameter or down in load.
 
So I contacted the manufacturer via email. I heard back quickly. I was told that the swager can not be used with copper sleeves because there isn't a manufacturer in Japan that makes copper sleeves, so they can't have someone make copper sleeves for them.
 
First off. All of us that install rigging systems only use copper. Aluminum sleeves can test higher than copper in pull tests, however, they have issues with shock load. Hence, why they are not used. Theater consultants only allow copper sleeves and stops. Our standard at Grand Stage Company is copper sleeves and stops.

Second, I have used the ARM tools. I don't like the lack of adjustability with them. The older ones that I have seen do not seem to wear well. I also don't like that the jaw is narrower than National Telephone tools. The number of crimps is probably different than NT. Or not, who knows? When they tell you not to use them with copper, that makes me worry even more. On the Rigging Warehouse site, the video and PDF only show aluminum sleeves. One thing about NT tools, is they do hold up well.

They are cheap though. So buy three of them and when one needs adjustment, throw it in the scrap metal bin so it gets recycled into a nice NT tool and open up the next one. Or buy one from National Telephone.

Ted
 
Just because I was curious-I contacted the company selling the ARM tool and told them that the manufacturer does not advise using the ARM tool with copper sleeves. I was told that they have been selling the ARM tool for years with copper sleeves. I was told that a lot of their customers use them with copper sleeves and just to use the supplied go/no-go gauge. They did advise that they also carry other swagers (Locoloc & Nicropress) that can be used with copper sleeves.
 
I’m of the personal opinion that if you want swaging tools on a budget, to use for overhead suspension, you should buy Loos & Co. They’re a reputable manufacturer that stands behind their products and supports them for entertainment industry uses.

There are a myriad of uses for wire rope, and budget tools are perfectly fine for those, but if someone is standing underneath it that’s NOT the time to cheap out.
 
You always have to think, "if this fails, how is the lawsuit going to go?" It would be hard for it to cross an international border, so the buck will probably stop at you. BTW, it's not just covering your butt, liability-wise. If the company making the thing knows they are at risk of liability, you have much better assurance that they are doing their own due diligence and making a good product. If they have no risk, they have less incentive for quality.
 
Nicopress white paper attached on aluminum vs. copper sleeves with science and data to support why copper fittings are preferred over aluminum.
 

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