Vintage Lighting Old EDI TCC board connected to ?

Jay Lee

Member
Greetings Control Booth Lighting and Electrics forum, I recently worked a show at a middle school that had an old EDI TCC 2-18/T two-scene preset board but it was connected to a wall of sliders that needed to be pulled out before they could move. Some of the sliders would not pop back in to complete the circuit at the desired intensity and would need to be moved left or right to find where they would seat. I've scoured the web for references to this but can't seem to find anything.
I've attached photos of the setup if it might help in identifying the make and model of that wall of sliders.
 

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RonHebbard

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Greetings Control Booth Lighting and Electrics forum, I recently worked a show at a middle school that had an old EDI TCC 2-18/T two-scene preset board but it was connected to a wall of sliders that needed to be pulled out before they could move. Some of the sliders would not pop back in to complete the circuit at the desired intensity and would need to be moved left or right to find where they would seat. I've scoured the web for references to this but can't seem to find anything.
I've attached photos of the setup if it might help in identifying the make and model of that wall of sliders.
Memories! Hello @Jay Lee Your wall of sliders is a load level (As opposed to signal level) lighting patch panel. Two styles were manufactured; the telephone operator style with plugs, receptacles, plus single conductor cables and the slider style.
With the telco style you were limited to how many load cables could be patched to any one dimmer.

With the slider style you could patch as many loads to one dimmer as you wanted up to the limits of the dimmer's wattage rating.
Most of the load level patch panels I worked with were populated with 20 Amp load circuits and 6 Kw dimmers. On the telco style, the 60 Amp circuits used larger gauge single conductor wires for the loads.
I only met one slide patch with 60 Amp circuits.

None of the load level patches were intended to be hot patched, the resultant arcing would rapidly burn the contacts.
In Hamilton, Ontario, Canada; the oldest amateur theatre has a lovingly maintained 100 load by 48 dimmer slide patch similar to yours still in service.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
Greetings Control Booth Lighting and Electrics forum, I recently worked a show at a middle school that had an old EDI TCC 2-18/T two-scene preset board but it was connected to a wall of sliders that needed to be pulled out before they could move. Some of the sliders would not pop back in to complete the circuit at the desired intensity and would need to be moved left or right to find where they would seat. I've scoured the web for references to this but can't seem to find anything.
I've attached photos of the setup if it might help in identifying the make and model of that wall of sliders.
 

RonHebbard

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Greetings Control Booth Lighting and Electrics forum, I recently worked a show at a middle school that had an old EDI TCC 2-18/T two-scene preset board but it was connected to a wall of sliders that needed to be pulled out before they could move. Some of the sliders would not pop back in to complete the circuit at the desired intensity and would need to be moved left or right to find where they would seat. I've scoured the web for references to this but can't seem to find anything.
I've attached photos of the setup if it might help in identifying the make and model of that wall of sliders.
@Jay Lee Ward Leonard and Ariel Davis were two manufacturers, this should like to photos of Ariel Davis patch panels.
https://www.google.com/search?q=ari...AgAF2iAHPGpIBBTIyLjE0mAEAoAEB&sclient=gws-wiz
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 

microstar

Well-Known Member
I think the @Jay Lee photo of the slider patch may have been made by Rual Industries, a more modern version (late 1960's/early1970's?) of the original Ariel Davis Quick-Connect.
I have a photo of the Rual slider patch I worked with and also an Ariel Davis catalog that I need to locate to provide more information.
 
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derekleffew

Resident Curmudgeon
Senior Team
Premium Member
As has been said, the "wall of sliders" is s slider patch panel, used to assign each of your 60 circuits into one of the 18 dimmers (and non-dims N1>N6; and a T for test circuit). Sliders are not supposed to be moved when dimmers are above 0%, aka "hot patching." The reason some don't make good contact when the slider is released is due to arcing over the past. Even the best of systems involved a good deal of wiggling and finger-crossing.

These came out at roughly the same time (or just before) that economics made DPC dimmer per circuit viable, once the cost of patch panel and associated wiring was factored in. Henceforth, patching was done in the console (softpatch) with just a multiplexed or digital signal sent from the console to the dimmer rack(s).
 

microstar

Well-Known Member
Here is the spec sheet for the original Ariel Davis "Quick-Connect" and a photo of a Rual Industries slider patch circa 1972, not sure when it was installed though.
Davis Quick-Connect a .jpeg
Davis Quick-Connect b .jpeg
Rual Slider Patch 1.jpeg
 

Jay Lee

Member
Much gratitude for all this information. Makes a lot of sense now when I noticed one side of the 1st electric border lights (red, blue, amber, 96 in all among 8 arrays on 1st and 2nd electrics ) started throwing amber with the house lights. Yes, I unknowingly hot patched as I also watched a 1K scoop on the cyc dim as I move it to the left and pushed back in, purely coincidence in my forming the wrong idea. Full disclosure -- I'm an reasonably experienced sound guy (not a pro but been learning and doing for over 20 years) and I have dabbled with lighting in small stage and dance studio productions, trying to help struggling friends get their show off the ground.

I couldn't figure out where the patching was being done as worklights at the panel are blinding, and deck worklights in general are almost nonexistent (early multi LED floods in 4 medium bases along side and backstage walls with a twist timer on the wall near the dimmer rack) so I couldn't really make out the markings on the sliders. Also, the underbalcony lights have never worked for the past 10 years through people I've know who taught at this middle school, this might help with troubleshooting since the house chandeliers do work (someone put in CFL twisties many years ago, they take a minute or so to warm up to provide decent illumination but I can see a huge problem if I needed them full on in an emergency. I guess the picture of the lack of adequate budget is keeping things from getting better.

Also, the stage is used for dance classes, indoor PE activities, debate classes, etc, and they throw the ON/OFF switch on the EDI TCC to power up all the lights for those activities (I've seen 3-4 of those 200watt bulbs blow filaments at a time); while helping on Memorial Day Sunday with organizing the wardrobe in the building, we noticed all the stage lights on including that 1K scoop with a dark blue gel aimed at a black drape only 2ft in front of it -- it was on since the previous Friday night and would have stayed on until Tuesday when school was back for the week... sorry, this is so frustrating to watch when they say there's no money.

So, this leads me to the next question which may have been answered in numerous other threads I've read, but I'll put it a little differently: Would faders at full behave electrically close enough to a straight wire to provide power to DMX devices (fading would be via DMX, not via the power circuit)? I believe what I've read is that it's preferred to install a relay in place of the dimmer?
I'm attaching photos of the rest of the dimmer rack and breakers, and the dreaded and laughed at taped instructions
 

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John Palmer

Well-Known Member
NO! Faders at full will not power electronics!
The constant circuits might be usable for this. MIGHT!
There are a lot of variables.
Take care,
John
 

derekleffew

Resident Curmudgeon
Senior Team
Premium Member
Here is the spec sheet for the original Ariel Davis "Quick-Connect"
1955?! I had no idea they were that old.
These came out at roughly the same time (or just before) that economics made DPC dimmer per circuit viable, once the cost of patch panel and associated wiring was factored in.
So this is wrong. DPC didn't come about until approx. 1980, so slider patch had a nice 25 year life span. Interesting that the telephone-style patch panel dominated all but the educational market during that time.
 

brucek

Active Member
Schools liked slider patches because they were slim and can be locked with a cover. Telephone patches are messy and appear more dangerous.
 

Bob Musser

Member
Greetings Control Booth Lighting and Electrics forum, I recently worked a show at a middle school that had an old EDI TCC 2-18/T two-scene preset board but it was connected to a wall of sliders that needed to be pulled out before they could move. Some of the sliders would not pop back in to complete the circuit at the desired intensity and would need to be moved left or right to find where they would seat. I've scoured the web for references to this but can't seem to find anything.
I've attached photos of the setup if it might help in identifying the make and model of that wall of sliders.
Wow, memories! Or nightmares. We lived with that set-up until they modernized our main stage in 2007. I had to find a fabricator who could duplicate the plastic slider handles, as the material on the originals became brittle over time. One "wing" would break off, then having all the stress transferred to the remaining wing would cause it to break in short order.
 

Ben Stiegler

Well-Known Member
My middle school had the telephone patch style boards in all the district middle schools. VeryNASA looking, Kliegel or Strand I think with increasingly massive subs and grand master mechanical interlock dimmers. One was built in a steel loft over a wing - no idea how much levitation was required to get all that iron and steel up the ladder. No safety cage on the ladder either of course.
 
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RonHebbard

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
My middle school had the telephone patch style boards in all the middle schools. Very nasa looking, jliegrl or strand I think with increasingly massive subs and grand master mechanical interlock dimmers. One was built in a steel loft over a wing - no idea how much levitation was required to get all that iron and steel up the ladder. No safety cage on the ladder either of course.
That's when you ask the tower crane operator which brand of beer he prefers and have him drop your gear in before the roof is completed.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 

Ben Stiegler

Well-Known Member
That's when you ask the tower crane operator which brand of beer he prefers and have him drop your gear in before the roof is completed.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
It was definitely a retrofit after the roof went on, Ron. The projection booth was designed for nitro-cellulose film, with walls about a foot thick, heavy metal shutters with fusible thermal links. I think the building dated from the early 20s or so. I think they must have humped or roped the pieces up. There were no working fly linesets - all fixed hangs.

Plus - that Scrimmer! Met my first one in 1973 at college; it was pre-DMX. They were well built - never fried one, and amazing those are still in service at this school!
 

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