Vintage Lighting Old Followspot Help

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by Thoms, Nov 17, 2016.

  1. Thoms

    Thoms Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Hello everyone,

    I am a senior and the main theater/everything tech here at school. We have two follow spots that are very old. So I need some replacement parts, one of the focuses are broken, the switches to turn them on are loose, there are many screws missing so that the top is not even attached and I cannot find the right screws to replace them. Also just recently one of them stopped working all together. I oped it up and found that one of the connections had been completely corroded, and the crimp connection had fallen off. I would also like to find some replacement bulbs to have on hand, as of now we have no extras.

    Thanks!

    IMAG0186.jpg IMAG0190.jpg IMAG0191.jpg IMAG0192.jpg IMAG0193.jpg IMAG0196.jpg IMAG0197.jpg IMAG0200.jpg IMAG0201.jpg
     
  2. EdSavoie

    EdSavoie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    569
    Likes Received:
    314
    Occupation:
    College Student
    Location:
    Windsor, ON, Canada
    Good Morning / Afternoon, that looks similar to the pair of Super Alt Spot 2100s we have, without knowing if yours has one of those external transformer packs or not, I'm going to assume this is one that wires directly into the mains, and possibly controllable from a dimmer.

    Either way,
    you're looking for a 500W bulb of the p28s socket type, I can get you a bulb number in a couple hours from our spares room.

    As for the physical damage, I'll ask around, ours have been maintained a few times over the years it would seem, but I'm not sure where one would get parts to DIY though.
     
  3. EdSavoie

    EdSavoie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    569
    Likes Received:
    314
    Occupation:
    College Student
    Location:
    Windsor, ON, Canada
    Side note, how far is the throw from spots position to stage? I'm curious as to why those sockets are only rated to 500W, that's the same as our fresnel cans... Then again, it seems your spots don't have a fan assembly underneath, that could explain why it's only rated to 500W
     
  4. Thoms

    Thoms Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Hey! Yeah ours don't have any transformer packs on them or fans on them. The mains go directly into the light. I don't know exactly how far the throw is but my best estimate is 50-60 feet.
     
  5. Thoms

    Thoms Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Also on the base of the socket it said 2500W 250V. I am not sure if that is the light i am supposed to have?
     
  6. EdSavoie

    EdSavoie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    569
    Likes Received:
    314
    Occupation:
    College Student
    Location:
    Windsor, ON, Canada
    Oh! That makes more sense, I didn't see the 2... That means you can use a bulb up to 2500W.

    So you're looking for a 1000 to 2500W p28s lamp
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2016
    Thoms likes this.
  7. BobHealey

    BobHealey Active Member

    Messages:
    527
    Likes Received:
    66
    Occupation:
    Systems Administrator
    Location:
    Troy, NY
    That's what the socket is rated for. What the fixture can handle, and what the socket can handle often are two very different things. Case in point: The TP-22 socket is rated for 1000W, but the Altman 360Q which uses that socket is only rated for 750W.
     
  8. BobHealey

    BobHealey Active Member

    Messages:
    527
    Likes Received:
    66
    Occupation:
    Systems Administrator
    Location:
    Troy, NY
    Since you appear to be based in the US, might be worth giving Altman a call and seeing if they have scans of any documentation on it. The white wires look suspiciously like something you want to try to avoid handling, especially in enclosed spaces.
     
  9. RonHebbard

    RonHebbard Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    3,558
    Likes Received:
    1,813
    Location:
    Burlington, Ontario, Canada
    Oh say it! Say the 'A' word!! ASBESTOS!!! There! I've not only said it but printed it in CAPS!!
    Toodleoo!
    Ron Hebbard.
     
    Van likes this.
  10. JD

    JD Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,186
    Likes Received:
    1,529
    Location:
    North Wales PA
    Kelite, Thoms and Les like this.
  11. venuetech

    venuetech Well-Known Member Departed Member

    Messages:
    1,453
    Likes Received:
    371
    Occupation:
    aud man out
    Location:
    AK,
    It is likely best just to bag those fixtures as they have asbestos wiring. The cost of proper asbestos abatement is likely far greater than replacement of the fixture. Back in the late 70s and early 80s much effort went into the removal of building material that contained asbestos fibers. Because a fixture such as this was not "building material" they survived the purge. I had a chance to point out such an issue to an inspector at the time, but for whatever reason it was beyond the scope of his inspections at that time.
    http://www.mesothelioma.com/asbestos-exposure/handling/
    If you are in a school you should report it to an administrator.
    My advice would be to do no further work on those units, apart from putting them in a plastic bag.
     
  12. EdSavoie

    EdSavoie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    569
    Likes Received:
    314
    Occupation:
    College Student
    Location:
    Windsor, ON, Canada
    Interestingly, I just went though all my spots and their original fuse panels from the same era as theirs and it doesn't *look* to be asbestos wiring in them... Then again, my untrained eye probably isn't the best to be determining that...

    Looking around at pictures of all the stuff, I have no idea anymore... I'm going to take some pictures of my spots and their associated circuit boxes. They looked like fibreglass to me

    Also, on the p28s socket, is there a different name for a larger version? I could be losing it from this musical, but the sockets I found in one of my unused spots appears to be of much larger diameter.
     
  13. Les

    Les Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,112
    Likes Received:
    923
    Location:
    DFW, Tx.
    Yep, P40s, mogul prefocus. This fixture commonly uses a 1500w DTA lamp. The P28s information earlier in the thread is incorrect — that's medium prefocus and will not work in this fixture.


    I am all for repairing old fixtures, but I have to wonder if these are worth it. Especially that one with the busted lens. You'll probably have a hard time finding that part, and for a price that makes it worthwhile.

    The wiring needs to be completely replaced since it's asbestos. You really don't want to be cutting/stripping that stuff. I believe you'd want to substitute type SF-2 wire in its place but again, that's more money and labor toward these dyna-saurs. Not to mention the hazard of working within them. There does only appear to be about 2' of wiring in each light but you'll spend more money on keeping yourself protected and disposal of the old wiring.

    Everything else is just basic hardware – finding the correct machine screws from Fastenal, maybe a few self-tappers. Nothing major there. But the lens all but totals the fixture, and the wiring needs to be dealt with which opens a can of worms in safety and liability.

    How many other schools are in your district? You never know; there may be a pair of spots collecting dust in a neighboring facility or in an annex somewhere. Otherwise, it might be time to petition for some replacements.

    I uploaded a file which may or may not contain information about your specific lights. The only information in question would be the lenses used, which varies by model.
     

    Attached Files:

    • 902.pdf
      File size:
      323.8 KB
      Views:
      111
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2016
    Kelite and Thoms like this.
  14. Thoms

    Thoms Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Yeah, we really need all new lighting. We really just do not have the money for it. Throughout my years here so far I have been making all this old lighting work, and petitioning to all the administration that we need new lights. I wish i could just fix it but by the sounds of it that is a terrible idea. Something that really concerns me now is that if that is asbestos wiring that means that almost all of our lighting has asbestos wiring in it. And I have been working with all of it for a couple years now. Quite a few years back now the whole auditorium was ripped apart to get all the asbestos out, and a lot of the rest of the school was also torn apart.
    So all of it really really needs to be replaced. I will bring this to my music director first on Monday and then bring it to the administration.

    Thank you everyone!

    Also there are a lot of other schools in my district, I should check in with them see if they could help.
    That document helps a lot also! But the spots are really hard too see compared to our other lights, they have to be pretty dim to see the spotlight or just basically off so we really need some new ones anyway. I am really hoping that the administration will find some money because of the asbestos wiring
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2016
  15. EdSavoie

    EdSavoie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    569
    Likes Received:
    314
    Occupation:
    College Student
    Location:
    Windsor, ON, Canada
    A tip on dealing with school boards from personal experience, some boards can be rather uncooperative to an insane degree. Every now and then complacency must be met with the torches and pitchforks of the general public who invariably fund them. Try to avoid making enemies, but if they either do nothing in short order, or they pull a fast one and put a lockout on the entire theatre, don't tolerate their crap, either contact the persons above them, a government representative for educational in your area (called trustee here) or, my personal favorite, parent council.
     
    RonHebbard and Thoms like this.
  16. Les

    Les Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,112
    Likes Received:
    923
    Location:
    DFW, Tx.
    If the rest of the lighting has whips that look like this, you have been dealing with asbestos. There are still several spaces out there who put up with it (or did until recently) and I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. This day in age though, they really should spring for new lighting instruments. While asbestos whips might not be a death sentence, there are certainly risks involved in continuing to use it. As for what's in your spot, it remains relatively undisturbed and isn't as much of an issue – until you try and splice it to add a new crimp terminal.


    If your lights have fiberglass whips (black, single sheath), you're in good shape, at least where health and safety are concerned.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2016
    RonHebbard and Thoms like this.
  17. Thoms

    Thoms Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Yeah, we have had problems with them. But the main problem is we really don't have the money for it. We are just now coming out of a hole so they are trying as hard as they can.
     
  18. EdSavoie

    EdSavoie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    569
    Likes Received:
    314
    Occupation:
    College Student
    Location:
    Windsor, ON, Canada
    Thanks to a relatively close connection with Wall sound and lighting in our area, it seems that all our hung lights got the leads replaced at some point. All our axial lekolights, source 4s, Kliegl scoops, Kliegl X-rays, and Kliegl Cycs use the same modern leads with a black plasticy fabric casing covering three wires. What is likely still asbestos around here is everything not in plain sight. I'm starting to think the fuseboxes from earlier still are, ditto the spots, and that all of the really old Fresnels with white fabric leads are asbestos.

    FYI, one of our spots *has* failed in the same way as yours, the wire corroded enough to make the wire finally melt off, so now a new crimp is in order.

    Being the stubborn type, and knowing that when I leave, techs here for the next 15 years will probably not give it a second thought, I'm seriously considering yanking the wiring myself in the presence of a strong vacuum with a HEPA filter.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2016
    RonHebbard likes this.
  19. Thoms

    Thoms Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Probably 3/4 of our lights have the white kind of asbestos wiring in the and also for the whips.
     
  20. Thoms

    Thoms Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Our frensels are the same way with the white leads, and I am pretty sure all of our scoops on stage are also the white asbestos leads
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice