Old Moving Lights... Old Technician

[ACTSTech]

Need advice (as usual)

My board has purchased two well used MAC 700s for installation in a renovated venue...
They are probably getting 3 well used MAC 2K washes donated...

Now someone has offerred well used Chauvet Q-Wash 575s for "a low price" which they won't reveal to me.

Anyone have any experience with these? I'm imagining them going where our first electric will be placed, trim is probably going to be 16-17' off the deck. I'm assuming (because I'm good at making bad assumptions) that they'd be comparable to the other units which would be there (like an Altman StarPar).

Help?

 

[Amiers]

What do you want to know?

 

[TimMc]

Need advice (as usual)

My board has purchased two well used MAC 700s for installation in a renovated venue...
They are probably getting 3 well used MAC 2K washes donated...

Now someone has offerred well used Chauvet Q-Wash 575s for "a low price" which they won't reveal to me.

Anyone have any experience with these? I'm imagining them going where our first electric will be placed, trim is probably going to be 16-17' off the deck. I'm assuming (because I'm good at making bad assumptions) that they'd be comparable to the other units which would be there (like an Altman StarPar).

Help?

I can tell you what I know - I danced (literally) on the dock when the last Mac 2k left our shop.

Your choice of thread title is prescient: You will need a tech with parts sources on speed dial. Good luck.

 

[ACTSTech]

I'm asking for opinions on the lights, specifically the Chauvets. Is the output comparable to a traditional fixed Par? Basically, if they get hung next to a StarPar with a 575w lamp is it going to look the same? How much should I expect to spend on maintenance per year?

I can't argue against free lights, and if the board is going to spend money without it coming out of my "budget" (if you call begging with a tin cup a budget) I can't argue. I can't really tell them no, but I can make an arguement. I didn't want the MAC 700s but they're here. I know there's a lot of maintenance required on them. And maintenance is money. If these Chauvets are a pain in the butt, or won't cut through the lights, or don't respond, or whatever, I'd like to take my tin cup and beg that they don't buy them. They're only planning on doing 4 shows per year, so the lights will get about 120 hours of use per year, but I know that sometimes NOT running things is as bad as running. Just opinions are what I'm looking for.

 

[cbrandt]

You can keep a 2k running forever with scrounged parts from other carcasses, which are relatively easy to get (getting harder, they're just getting older). The 700 is a fantastic light, while it is working. Keep the slides on the color mixing system lubricated, and inspect your belts. The biggest place you'll have trouble is with the main logic board. Almost everything in the light ties through that, and once it fails, it is a replace, not a repair, most of the time. At your budget range, that will kill the light for you. But treat it with kid gloves, keep it lubricated, and disconnect from power when you're not using it, and you'll get a lot of good hours out of it.

I can't comment on the Chauvets, I haven't used those before.

 

[sk8rsdad]

I don't know the Chauvet fixture specifically. That said, it is highly unlikely it is similar to a traditional fixed PAR. If the idea is to blend it as a wash light then that isn't going to work very well. It's a different animal.

• HMI discharge lamp vs tungsten incandescent
• profile vs wash edit: missed that these were Q-Wash
• dichroic color wheel CMY vs gel
• lots of optics vs naked lamp in a reflector

About the only thing they might have in common is age.

 

[ACTSTech]

At your budget range, that will kill the light for you.

So reused gaff tape and some 12 gauge wire scraps won't do? My concern is that they're finding money to spend on things that are flash and trash, and then when nothing works it will be my fault. I'm not the most knowledgeable, so I won't be able to do a repair before the house doors open at 7 when we find out there's a problem at 5:30. Re-lamp, no sweat. Re-gel, gotcha. Troubleshoot a fixture I've only ever rented, and that came with a tech, I'm hopeless

If the idea is to blend it as a wash light

I don't think that I would necessarily use them as a wash, I'm just wondering how the light matches up, if it would have a similar punch. I learned old school looking at fixtures and their output in fc (I know, I know, I'm stuck in my old ways) so if I saw that a light at 20 feet had a beam so wide and was 150 fc, I'd know that if I needed a special, I'd get something that had more output. Not scientific, but it worked. Now, with all the different temperatures, discharges, LEDs, and so on, I'm lost. I wish there was an easy way to look at a light and say at 16' the S4 is X, the MAC is X and the PAR is X, so I'll have to cut the intensity of this to match, or this is the best option for this.

Anyone know how to rewire my brain to stop thinking like this?

The board watches Hamilton, and sees the moving lights, and gets inspired, but doesn't think about the cost of NEW equipment, they're finding "deals" on 10 year old fixtures. Would I use the Chauvet's as movers, sure. Flash and trash can be fun. Would I try to use them as wash lights for static shows, no. In my brain, I kind of envision what I could use something for, but without any experience with the light, I don't know how it would fit in. Does that make sense? I know that my 6" fresnel gives me a nice beam if I use it one way, so if I need that tool, it's available. I know how I utilize my ellipsoidals, and each barrel is a different tool. I wouldn't put a 50-degree 30 feet away and hope it is powerful enough as a spot. I wouldn't put an 11-degree up to use as a wash from 15 feet. Wrong tools. I'm afraid that I'm getting some expensive and aging tools and I don't know where they fit in my toolbox and if I can use them...

 

[cbrandt]

So reused gaff tape and some 12 gauge wire scraps won't do?

That will work really well for the mac 2ks, and for most problems on the 700s, up until the lamp won't strike, or it won't start up. That's the point where you're done. Love and care will keep those going for a good long time.

Anyone know how to rewire my brain to stop thinking like this?

The same way you learned in the first place! Read a little, but most put the lights up and see how they work. I know that's tough in these times, and with only 4 shows per year, but that will really help you get there. We could go pore over the spec sheets on the Chauvets, but that won't tell you what kind of output they have *now*, as compared to when they were new.

Judging from the manual, those should mop the floor with a star par, and give you a decent zoom range, but not a tight beam, but also not a super wide one. You can absolutely use them as a stage wash, and they have color mixing. It will take a lot of work to get a natural color out of them, and they probably won't match at this age. With your experience, use them as back or side light, and I think you'll be happy (provided they all work).

 

[ACTSTech]

That will work really well for the mac 2ks, and for most problems on the 700s, up until the lamp won't strike, or it won't start up. That's the point where you're done. Love and care will keep those going for a good long time.

When I first got involved (i.e. suckered in) with the group, they had cobbled together old equipment and purchased a few new instruments. It worked for them, especially since they started up with nothing, but they knew it lacked. I, being a master tinkerer, did my best to repair at minimal cost what I could to just help out (not sure if I helped or hindered in hindsight...) The only time I said no was when they were "donated" old footlights from a local high school that was getting a facelift. I figured 4' strip lights, we could do something with them, I hate passing up free. Then I saw the tell-tale white, fraying fabric covering the leads from the lights to a fairly newish stage pin connector. I told the woman who had secured the "donation" that I wasn't in the asbestos business. A few days later, after the janitor who was in charge of the auditorium told the superintendent that we weren't taking the lights, he called the woman very upset that he'd have to "pay for removal of a perfectly good supply of lights". It was so kind of him to hope that we'd generously take his HazMat off his hands for free...

I've looked over their manual too. I put my foot in my mouth before with Ben Dickman from Chauvet because I'd like the old fashioned photometric report with the cone of light and sample readings at different distances to be included in everything, not just the Chauvet Professional line. I know these are older units, but still, would be a nice reference.

Thanks for the input!

 

[cbrandt]

The older the light is, the less you're going to get on photometrics. Chauvet has substantially upped their game, but that doesn't help on these older things. At least it has a lux/footcandle reading at a distance, you can extrapolate from there.

 

[soundlight]

Those Q-Washes look like they're from the dark ages before Chauvet did their own product development, so I'd be very wary of paying any money for them. I can't even find them listed on the Chauvet parts site, so chances of getting parts are exceedingly low. If you got them for free, sure, but I think paying any money for them would be a mistake.

The MAC700s should serve you fairly well if they're hung and not moved, those fixtures are very reliable as long as you silicone oil the CMY tracks to keep them from catching/belts from breaking. Parts for the MAC700s should be available for some time to come. I just refurbished two of these recently, they were thrashed for years in a concert venue and it didn't take much to make them functional again. I know those things inside out and backwards though, so disassembly and cleaning was easy for me. Luckily they are one of the easiest movers to take apart to clean, the modules pop right out. Just make sure when putting the modules back in to line up the connector at the bottom carefully before pressing down, even though there are rails to align them they can be a smidge outta whack as they age, and that plastic isn't as sturdy as it was 15 years ago.

The MAC2000s will break within the year and thereafter every few weeks or months until you/someone else give up on fixing them. I started working in a large rental shop in the fall of 2010 and the MAC2Ks were out the door less than 6 months after I started working there, and we were glad they were gone. Same shop had MAC700s which continued to be the most reliable units in inventory until I left 6 years later.

Make sure you impress on your board that the old toys they are buying cannot be expected to last. Even with the MAC700s, they're fairly reliable until something like a ballast or brain goes (both unlikely but possible), and then you're out more than the cost of another used unit just for that part, unless you have a donor fixture standing by. Also, you really have to watch lamp hours on those things, if a MAC700 lamp blows (which sounds like a gunshot if you're up close as I learned in my first week at that rental shop) - it will take the UV glass with it, then you need to buy both new UV glass and a new lamp (the lamp alone is $125 or so per lamp if I remember right).

ETA: This is the stuff you should use on the color mixing rails of the MACs.

 

[ACTSTech]

Those Q-Washes look like they're from the dark ages before Chauvet did their own product development, so I'd be very wary of paying any money for them. I can't even find them listed on the Chauvet parts site, so chances of getting parts are exceedingly low. If you got them for free, sure, but I think paying any money for them would be a mistake.

Thank you, exactly what I need. My board has big ideas, but since I have zero experience with these, I couldn't tell them yes or no with a why. I appreciate them wanting to improve what they have, but I'd rather them take the money they want to spend on quantity and put it into quality.