Conventional Fixtures Older Light Identification

[Murphy913]

I have attached a picture of a light found in my inventory. No identification on it all. Had a guy at a lighting company that he thought it was possibly a Century or Capital fixture. Any ideas? I need frames for these and do not know where to start looking...

 

[Van]

I'd bet dollars that unit is a Century, axial ERS. Don't those take a standard 7.5" frame ? Ship's the Man though, he'll know for sure.

 

[Murphy913]

I'd bet dollars that unit is a Century, axial ERS. Don't those take a standard 7.5" frame ? Ship's the Man though, he'll know for sure.

It takes a 6 1/4" frame... and I have FEL bulbs in them now if that helps at all

 

[derekleffew]

I don't know the brand of the fixture in question, but luckily, 6.25"x6.25" with a 5" opening, is a common frame size: Source Four, SL, Shakespeare, Pacific. City Theatrical Color Frames.

 

[ship]

Wow! that's clearly a Century shape and color to it - axial lamp cap to it? Didn't know Century got that far before Strand bought them out. When did strand buy them out anyway? I forget. Not sure what's going on up front for the fixture though as a note.

Shutters seem familar to another brand. Don't want to say Colortran but it's something from our 70's inventory I now manage in seeing the odd shape of shutters without a match. Assuming the axial Leko came out in say 1974, I would date it to about than and the Strand buyout after that. This is probably Century's last Leko and a very rare Leko.

Only Century Leko of the size I have in collection is the monumental radial version #1590 43° Leko, c. 1947-1963 which set the standard I think for all other radial Lekos to follow and improve on. This beyond my cross cannons of #1560 8x10 Leko Light c. 1948. Plus a 1954-1959 #1577 I forgot about. All were very insane and dangerous to bench focus. Different lamp cap on what you show would be in taking end user safety into account no doubt.

What type of lamp is it using or what socket does it have? Could be earlier if using a dual ended RSC lamp instead of G-9.5 lamp or P-28s lamp. Such details in say 1964 era verses etc. how to date the fixture. If P-28s, perhaps in the mid-range as a concept between the above dates in clearly a Halogen fixture but what type of lamp it's using will further date it.

(RSC - dual ended meaning R-7s, verses in local terms the G-9.5 meaning medium bi-pin, verses the P-28s meaning medium pre-focus in defining terms. Theoretically possible that once the P-28s went halogen, someone made an axial Leko out of it as a possibility - this amongst two sizes of the lamp type. Very possible I think that before the axial halogen G-9.5 came out, someone did the axial halogen P-28s Leko and this might possibly be that case in making a axial Leko older than the above Altman date.)

More photos inside the lamp cap and if lamp that type for dating and defining. (Have not checked the Photometrics Handbook either.)

And on this if you want a for free service call in re-wiring and cleaning it back to factory speck and beyond - it so I can also learn from it... contact me off line. Have never seen such a fixture and would obvously love to add it to the museum. But the chance to see it in detail in stripping it apart and cleaning each part, than learn from it would if nothing else be something in sharing the experience.

Again, you were photoing a very historic piece of lighting gear I think that very few if anybody has. A black hole type of light probably without much info about it anywhere.

 

[derekleffew]

Wow! that's clearly a Century shape and color to it - axial lamp cap to it? Didn't know Century got that far before Strand bought them out. When did strand buy them out anyway? I forget. ...

From Memory Lighting Control Systems, History - ControlBooth :

1969: Rank buys LCA and forms Century Strand, "A company within the Rank Organisation"
1974: Altman introduces the axial 360Q ERS
1976: Century-Strand name changed to Strand-Century
1989: Strand-Century drops Century name, becomes Strand Lighting

I believe we've discussed elsewhere that Century had an axial ERS using the EGE/EGG/EGJ family of lamps, prior to or around 1969.

The fixture in question uses an FEL lamp. I don't think Capitol ever used the FEL lamp, the shutters look wrong for a Century. Perhaps Little Stage Lighting Co., Dallas, TX, model# E212. See Photometrics Handbook, Second Edition, page 233. Color Frame is specified as 6 1/2" sq. Beam angle: 11.2°, Field Angle 22.4°. MF=.395. PC=108,800 with FEL lamp.

 

[ship]

Checked Photometrics Handbook II - especially page 293. Have a look in I think the same overall fixture yet your's doesn't have the cooling vents added.

For me that more convinces me that it's probably the last Century Leko in your hands and a rare thing to have. Dating on the buyout obviously would help to date in the guide saying that this is a medium pre-focus (P-28s) type of lamp thus your's is probably also. Yep... somewhere between I think 1964 and 1974 for date and after that when Strand bought out Century for perhaps closer dating in perhaps Century held out with this lamp type for a Leko after 1974.

 

[ship]

From Memory Lighting Control Systems, History - ControlBooth :


I believe we've discussed elsewhere that Century had an axial ERS using the EGE/EGG/EGJ family of lamps, prior to or around 1969.

The fixture in question uses an FEL lamp. I don't think Capitol ever used the FEL lamp, the shutters look wrong for a Century. Perhaps Little Stage Lighting Co., Dallas, TX, model# E212. See Photometrics Handbook, Second Edition, page 233. Color Frame is specified as 6 1/2" sq. Beam angle: 11.2°, Field Angle 22.4°. MF=.395. PC=108,800 with FEL lamp.

I see your Little Stage Lighting fixture and raise you in not thinking that it is one. Kind of a wager of what type of lamp socket is in the fixture question to confirm what brand. Yes you have the better memory of what is discussed and finger touch to history we all depend on, I have the feel I think for what is by parts and shape and am I think correct in what I see. This even if P.233 is close in a copy in some ways.

What was the old thing to do - standing on one's head and some song sung?

I wadger one fully working hand made oak box spot, that this is a Century of the above noted P-28s I think verses what you think it is.... (Fun and games of course between two old timers as it were to the industry...) Both and either fixture would of course be very rare to find. Up for the challenge?

 

[derekleffew]

...I wadger one fully working hand made oak box spot, that this is a Century of the above noted P-28s I think verses what you think it is.... (Fun and games of course between two old timers as it were to the industry...) Both and either fixture would of course be very rare to find. Up for the challenge?

I have no intention of wagering with an un-armed opponent.

In post #3 above, the original poster, Murphy913, states:

... and I have FEL bulbs in them now if that helps at all

The fact that both Murphy913 and Little Stage Lighting are from Texas furthers my case, I believe.

Further, I have no interest in any lighting fixtures made of wood, no matter how exquisite the craftsmanship. The only things I desire for my collection are a Kliegl 1355, 1357, and a Century Lekolite signed by Ed Kook and Jos. Levy.

Thank you, BTW, for the HODDED #4/0 feeder cable, 100' +50' worth, that I had to deal with today.

 

[derekleffew]

I think I sent you a version of this Little Stage Lighting Catalog, ship, didn't I?
Although the fixture pictured is an entirely different unit (another "ERS," besides the Ariel Davis/ElectroControls units using a PAR lamp), much of the tooling is the same.

Little Stage Lighting Company, Catalog 3, 1963, page 7.

 

[erosing]

The only things I desire for my collection are a Kliegl 1355, 1357, and a Century Lekolite signed by Ed Kook and Jos. Levy.

There is a partial 1355 on ebay right now.

And there was (may still be) a 1357 floating around just outside of chicago.

 

[derekleffew]

Thanks, but I don't like incomplete fixtures. The Kliegls are common enough that I will run into someone throwing them away someday. Hate paying for fixtures and even more for shipping.

The other thing I want for my "museum" is a profile spot using a PAR lamp: the Little "Z-Lite" referenced above, an Ariel Davis Arielite® PAR FRAMER, or an Electro Controls 3213.

 

[erosing]

Thanks, but I don't like incomplete fixtures. The Kliegls are common enough that I will run into someone throwing them away someday. Hate paying for fixtures and even more for shipping.

Much in the same boat, particularly towards shipping, came across those listings while looking for something else and figured I pass it on. Ebay does happen to be good for research though, lots of pictures for comparison.

 

[ship]

Unarmed is correct didn't note the lamp mentioned. Very interesting. Also had a look at the Centurys today and they had more cooling slots thus it will have been doubtful. Still have the catalogue, at some point I'll get it in to be PDF'd.

A shame, I was looking forward to building another box spot.

 

[Murphy913]

What type of lamp is it using or what socket does it have? Could be earlier if using a dual ended RSC lamp instead of G-9.5 lamp or P-28s lamp. Such details in say 1964 era verses etc. how to date the fixture. If P-28s, perhaps in the mid-range as a concept between the above dates in clearly a Halogen fixture but what type of lamp it's using will further date it.

(RSC - dual ended meaning R-7s, verses in local terms the G-9.5 meaning medium bi-pin, verses the P-28s meaning medium pre-focus in defining terms. Theoretically possible that once the P-28s went halogen, someone made an axial Leko out of it as a possibility - this amongst two sizes of the lamp type. Very possible I think that before the axial halogen G-9.5 came out, someone did the axial halogen P-28s Leko and this might possibly be that case in making a axial Leko older than the above Altman date.)

More photos inside the lamp cap and if lamp that type for dating and defining. (Have not checked the Photometrics Handbook either.)

It has in it currently a FEL 1000w bulb with a G9.5 base. Hope that helps... I haven't been able to track this light down anywhere...

 

[jglodeklights]

Hhmmmm, me wonders if, based on the relatively rough shape, it was some custom made distillation of one of the designs ya'll 've been talking about? Part of the reason I'm thinking this is the shape matches the PAR lamped majiggers but is obviously less refined in construction, and the cap/tail definitely look like an Altman cap especially since the color matches that and not the body.

 

[Murphy913]

Hhmmmm, me wonders if, based on the relatively rough shape, it was some custom made distillation of one of the designs ya'll 've been talking about? Part of the reason I'm thinking this is the shape matches the PAR lamped majiggers but is obviously less refined in construction, and the cap/tail definitely look like an Altman cap especially since the color matches that and not the body.

This could be, seeing as how there is no branding of any kind on the light...

At the same time, however, knowing the way my school does business I doubt they would have had custom lights built...

 

[derekleffew]

It's not an Altman lamp cap, it has "ears" that a knob on each side locks down, right? Kliegl used that design for a while. I'm still saying it's from Little Stage Lighting. Does anyone know anyone who worked there? Is Bill Little still alive? I think Harry Little may have been a son or brother.

 

[jglodeklights]

Oh, I see now. Hard to tell unless you know what you're looking at. *Bows to the dudes that have been there/done that*

 

[Murphy913]

It's not an Altman lamp cap, it has "ears" that a knob on each side locks down, right? Kliegl used that design for a while. I'm still saying it's from Little Stage Lighting. Does anyone know anyone who worked there? Is Bill Little still alive? I think Harry Little may have been a son or brother.

It does have have two knobs that tighten down the "ears" as you say.