Control/Dimming Older System (1969)

[JChenault]

In fact, you could just leave them there parked at 100%. Unlike solid state, autotransformers do not introduce any distortion to the waveform so in effect, you already have your non-dim circuits installed!

Yes but... the only way to park them would probably involve gaff tape. And are there power supply lifetime issues if you have power to the fixtures 24/7 ?

 

[Dawn]

I am blown away by the amazing expert advice there - thank-you so much!

So, for now, I am going to have a kid facetime the show from the wings and control the dimmers - good advice. The show is in a month, and that that is the most viable option for now. I have looked in all the storage spaces and I am pretty sure that the original control console is long gone. This is middle school, so no one is expecting Broadway here.

Moving forward, I will look at replacing with LED's, which we may be able to budget in stages over the next 5 years, with some fundraising.

However, my husband, (who is also an avionics technician and a general contractor) feels pretty confident that he can go into the wall and into the 20amp board behind the control unit and find a positive and negative lead for each of the lighting tracks. He says that he can connect those to a new circuit breaker, then put a 3-prong plug on each of those lines (or 4 of them) and then plug them into a dimmer pack, and the lights can then be run to a dmx board. I am sure there is more to it, but that is what I understand to be the basics. Worst case scenario here is this doesn't work at all, we trash the whole thing, cap it off and I rent LED's for the next few shows until we can buy some.

I am renting wash lights for my show this year, to highlight our new muslin backdrop, and because I was told by one of our techs that the mic jacks were actually lighting jacks, we purchased an inexpensive lighting console. I can use this moving forward though, so we may as well keep it.

To answer @RonHebbard:
-The colour knobs do not need to be pulled out - they slide up and down easily
-I am in Winnipeg, so your knowledge of Western Canada installations is very helpful
-Thank-you for taking the time to type and provide your expertise

Sincerely,
Dawn

 

[Dawn]

And, to expand on the point I didn't see anyone really delve into yet: replace them.

It's going to cost you money, but trying to keep the old ones is going to cost you both money *and* agony, both spread out over time.

And, as they note, if you can just go all LED, then you can just lay in non-Dim circuits to the appropriate places, and let the luminaires do all the dimming, and you won't need to "replace" the old dimmers.

The fixtures will cost a bit more, but it's probably made up for in not having to buy dimmer packs at all.

Thank-you Jay,
I am going to have to find out more about non-Dim circuits. My experience has been in portable strand lighting and basic junk the school division has on hand.

 

[Dawn]

Can you read a amperage on the breakers? I would be concerned that North America has kind of standardized on 20 amp and these could be 25 or larger - as was more common in that era. It simply will make replacement more expensive or limiting.

Thought frankly, if replacing, you should look at moving to LED, in which case the dimmers are needed. Replacing dimmers makes sense when you have a lot of installed circuits and a decent inventory of incandescent lights - and it seems you have neither.

It looks like 20 amp.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

You are creating an intercept panel by putting male plugs on pig tails on building wiring and despite any logic or reasoning, you have to protect each circuit with a circuit breaker - which substantially adds cost. All together, I think it would cost less to hardwire a small dimmer panel in. You could not do much better than a SmartPack Wall-Mount from ETC.

 

[Dawn]

You are creating an intercept panel by putting male plugs on pig tails on building wiring and despite any logic or reasoning, you have to protect each circuit with a circuit breaker - which substantially adds cost. All together, I think it would cost less to hardwire a small dimmer panel in. You could not do much better than a SmartPack Wall-Mount from ETC.

Thank-you, I will look into that.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Posting while posting. With 6 - 20 amp circuits - while it would be better to go all LED, truth is it would be hard to get as much light for a little than a 6 X 2400 install pack like I noted above, and some tungsten halogen fixtures. You would need new console but for 6 dimmers- even if you added some LED - that would not be much. Software versions might be fine. If you're an educator, look at the ETC student Nomad offer. I think $250 with the gadget.

 

[RonHebbard]

Yes but... the only way to park them would probably involve gaff tape. And are there power supply lifetime issues if you have power to the fixtures 24/7 ?

@JChenault <Snark On> (As @TimMc would say) What about high quality DMX controlled gaffers' tape? <Snark Off>
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[FMEng]

Yes but... the only way to park them would probably involve gaff tape. And are there power supply lifetime issues if you have power to the fixtures 24/7 ?

This is no problem at all. The Davis panel has a main breaker and six branch circuit breakers that can be used to turn off power to the LED instruments.

The sliders could be parked permanently at full with a piece of aluminum bar stock bolted to the sheet metal cover panel. $5 in materials and it's all set.

I spent many hours operating one of these as a teenager. That autoformer probably weighs 75-100 pounds. When we converted to a CD80 dimmer, I was going to save it, but decided against trying to carry it to my basement.

 

[kicknargel]

However, my husband, (who is also an avionics technician and a general contractor) feels pretty confident that he can go into the wall and into the 20amp board behind the control unit and find a positive and negative lead for each of the lighting tracks. He says that he can connect those to a new circuit breaker, then put a 3-prong plug on each of those lines (or 4 of them) and then plug them into a dimmer pack, and the lights can then be run to a dmx board.

If your husband is a GC, he's probably on top of it, but for the record I'll point out that this is work for a licensed electrician, controlled by code.

 

[Control point]

New
Hello,

I am trying to set up my old school theatre, which was turned into extra classroom space when our numbers were higher. Now that we no longer need the extra classroom space, I am attempting to turn it back into a theatre.

The school was build in 1969 and I imagine that the system was installed then. It is an old Ariel Davis system - 8 sliders.

The lights work and I have been able to find some replacement floodlights for the 2 that were burnt out. The lights are installed on tracks - there are 8 of them. The problem is that the sliders that control the tracks are in the control room next to the stage, not at the back of the theatre. There are outlets around the stage however. There are 3 that look like mic cable would go in them and 3 that look like they'd be for coaxial cables. I am not sure what to run to a board or dimmer box. I have attached pictures.

I also know that shows were performed here about 15 years ago, but no one remembers how the lighting was set up.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank-you,
Dawn

Dawn, you are looking at the patch panel portion of the system - this inter connects the circuits ( track lights ) to the dimmers.
If you had a licensed electrician carefully remove thi s panel you would probably see six bolt in dimmers behind it. They usually analog dimmers, that get controlled by a portable analog control console .
Sometimes there would be a green plastic rectangular plug in somewhere for the console.
My bet is they threw out the old control console.
If you can find the plug in point in the theatre it could be used to send a signal to the dimmers.

Your going to need an experienced “ old tech “ to go thru it with you.

What part of the country are you in ?

Carmel

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Dawn, you are looking at the patch panel portion of the system - this inter connects the circuits ( track lights ) to the dimmers.
If you had a licensed electrician carefully remove thi s panel you would probably see six bolt in dimmers behind it. They usually analog dimmers, that get controlled by a portable analog control console .
Sometimes there would be a green plastic rectangular plug in somewhere for the console.
My bet is they threw out the old control console.
If you can find the plug in point in the theatre it could be used to send a signal to the dimmers.

Your going to need an experienced “ old tech “ to go thru it with you.

What part of the country are you in ?

Carmel

You believe that is a slider patch and not the Ariel Davis linear auto-transformer? check here: https://goo.gl/BZxVMc

 

[FMEng]

The Davis I worked with had both the autoformer dimmer and the slider patch. I am certain that the OP has a dimmer with no patch.

 

[microstar]

Dawn, you are looking at the patch panel portion of the system - this inter connects the circuits ( track lights ) to the dimmers.
If you had a licensed electrician carefully remove thi s panel you would probably see six bolt in dimmers behind it. They usually analog dimmers, that get controlled by a portable analog control console .
Sometimes there would be a green plastic rectangular plug in somewhere for the console.
My bet is they threw out the old control console.
If you can find the plug in point in the theatre it could be used to send a signal to the dimmers.

Your going to need an experienced “ old tech “ to go thru it with you.

What part of the country are you in ?

Carmel

It's not a slider patch, it's the actual dimmer. OP said the yellow knobs slide smoothly, meaning no detents as would be for a slider patch.
It's an autotransformer dimmer so not remotely controllable by a portable analog console. And I don't think they made a motorized version of this with remote up/down switches!

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

The picture in the book link showed this pretty clearly is simply a linear auto-transformer.