Open Orch Pit Sign

[tschnuckel]

I've been charged with having to create a couple safety signs for when the orchestra pit cover is off and someone could fall from the stage. I'm trying to decide if the header on the sign should be Danger or Warning. According to OSHA, Danger is a hazard that will cause injury or death if not avoided - reserved for extreme conditions. A Warning is a hazard that could cause injury or death if not avoided. It's an 8ft drop ...

 

[MNicolai]

The label on a sign largely doesn't matter in terms of effectiveness at preventing injuries. Bolded text on a yellow background with one word or on a red background with another word is probably not going to make any difference one way or another in terms of who actually pays attention. The best prevention is eliminating the risk. Whether that's a pit net or a temporary net/railing/etc along the edge of the pit.

Incord makes some great products for this application, some of which even come with a DANGER sign already included.

Theatre - InCord Custom Safety Netting

THEATRE THEATRE SAFETY NETTING SOLUTIONS Theatre environments host a variety of fall hazards and dropped-object potential. Maintaining the safety of

incord.com

FWIW, OSHA would generally consider this an "OPEN HOLE" hazard and those signs usually have "DANGER" on them.

Not saying a sign isn't worth anything, but thousands of people every day end up in the ER from things that there were signs or labels instructing them not to do. Never doubt someone's ability to have complete disregard for the environment around them.

 

[egilson1]

OSHA requires more than a sign. You must mitigate the hazard.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

OSHA requires more than a sign. You must mitigate the hazard.

And how often do you see that enforced? Practically every stage in America requires "mitigation" along with every orchestra pit and balcony. I applaud the sign. I'm not where I can attach it but I have a graphic I modified. And it's on posts with bases with a strap between them. I'll share drawings asap - but could be Friday.

No darkness - ghost light or other light - and generally educating anyone who comes on stage. I have a couple of signs I have used backstage that simply warn people of possible hazards.

Also big on safety nets in pits.

Is this one a lift or a pit filler?

PS like this;

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQDpwiwD6b-72ymWEreH1aVplVjokJM7jxSCW-EJMnh0ZSNcp2YIEZevl4&s

 

[tschnuckel]

And how often do you see that enforced? Practically every stage in America requires "mitigation" along with every orchestra pit and balcony. I applaud the sign. I'm not where I can attach it but I have a graphic I modified. And it's on posts with bases with a strap between them. I'll share drawings asap - but could be Friday.

No darkness - ghost light or other light - and generally educating anyone who comes on stage. I have a couple of signs I have used backstage that simply warn people of possible hazards.

Also big on safety nets in pits.

Us this one a lift or a pit filler?

It's a pit filler. Honestly the cover is only off once a year for 2 weeks before the musical and the run of the show. Total open time is never more than a month. There are a couple board members who don't see the purpose and have suggested filling it with sand before spending money on the net system. They are the same people who don't understand why choirs need shells and risers ... we all have different problems and making an effort to educate to improve is sometimes the best we can do.

 

[RonHebbard]

It's a pit filler. Honestly the cover is only off once a year for 2 weeks before the musical and the run of the show. Total open time is never more than a month. There are a couple board members who don't see the purpose and have suggested filling it with sand before spending money on the net system. They are the same people who don't understand why choirs need shells and risers ... we all have different problems and making an effort to educate to improve is sometimes the best we can do.

@tschnuckel I suspect we've all seen more than our share of the types: They've all spent many hours in theatres with ~30% in lobbies and ~70% in box or first row seats. They may understand bars but ZERO or less about behind the prosc' and don't even mention the need for multiple truck docks, refrigerated storage, garbage bins, riser, chair and music stand storage. What, you want lights on the music stands?
I'll replace and secure the cap on this worm can and crawl back in my cave.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

The net is probably in the $3000-5000 range. Measure and diy. Seems like a small investment. As you may have seen me post here, the Life Safety Code requires a plan to protect people from the fall hazard

 

[Jay Ashworth]

To answer your question: 8ft drop is a fatality, especially if they land on music stands and such:

DANGER (Will Robinson)

 

[dvsDave]

InCord makes 2 solutions for pits. One is an Orchestra Pit Safety Net, and the other is called Stage Guard and it's a net that goes across the front of the stage to prevent people from falling from the stage to the pit, the Stage Guard is an excellent first step to protect people on stage. The question is the accessibility of the pit from the house.

 

[SamSam]

Mitigation is key. Don't forget about a good old fashioned rope. One Theater I work at has a long, trucking style ratchet strap that is tensioned to the proscenium walls at railing height when the space is unsupervised. Several theaters place stanchions when ever the pit is open/down, but a performance isn't happening.

 

[macsound]

Being one of those people who have never seen a net in front of an open pit, would something like the orange plastic fencing that is used in construction work? It's easily tensioned, comes on a roll and is available at most lumber yards. Could be combined with rope or a ratchet strap so one person could install.

 

[TimMc]

The crass part of me says trespassers SHOULD be injured by their own stupidity. The problem is that people who are supposed to know better, don't pay attention either. They both need to be stopped before they fall off the edge of the stage into the dragon's lair.

I think curare darts with automated target acquisition and firing should be used (think "last 10 minutes of The Andromeda Strain").

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Being one of those people who have never seen a net in front of an open pit, would something like the orange plastic fencing that is used in construction work? It's easily tensioned, comes on a roll and is available at most lumber yards. Could be combined with rope or a ratchet strap so one person could install.

Combined with a top strap, yeah, I think that's good enough to show you tried. The snow fence will get people's attention and the strap will actually stop them (where the snow fence would just stretch).

 

[RonHebbard]

The crass part of me says trespassers SHOULD be injured by their own stupidity. The problem is that people who are supposed to know better, don't pay attention either. They both need to be stopped before they fall off the edge of the stage into the dragon's lair.

I think curare darts with automated target acquisition and firing should be used (think "last 10 minutes of The Andromeda Strain").

@TimMc Your darts along with surface to air rockets launched by fully paid up AF of M members seated in the pit clutching their Stradrivari (or whatever the plural of Stradivarius equates to) along with all manner of wind and brass instruments in their lips and teeth.
Ya, surface to air rockets, their working for me!
Toodleoo @TimMc !
(Retired Bro') Ron Hebbard

 

[teqniqal]

A sign is just an admission that the problem wasn't solved.
That said, IF you place sign(s), be sure that they meet the newest ANSI / ISO standard for the format, not like the one shown above. Also, use BIG FRIKKIN" SIGNS™, maybe 3' x 4'.

 

[TimMc]

Maybe the long term solution is to put dragons in the orchestra pit... or fill it with water and stock with alligators or piranha...

"What stray person? We didn't see anyone, did we, Gators and Fish?"

 

[MNicolai]

Or sharks with highly contagious coronavirus and polio.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

A sign is just an admission that the problem wasn't solved.
That said, IF you place sign(s), be sure that they meet the newest ANSI / ISO standard for the format, not like the one shown above. Also, use BIG FRIKKIN" SIGNS™, maybe 3' x 4'.

In the case being discussed, the "problem" is "there are inattentive people in a room with a purposeful condition that is dangerous".

*Lots* of people don't have the necessary labor to safe the room at the end of the day and re-dangerous it in the morning.

So they use a sign to solve the "problem": Inattentive people.

In the final analysis, idiots are going to injure themselves no matter what you do; the purpose of the *sign* is to give your attorney something to work with in court.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

So related, faced with band teacher/pit conductor who insists OSHA does not require fall protection for orchestra pits because people at a certain major PAC - in a big city in Wisconsin - tell her that. I simply said that is not true and if an employee falls and is injured, expect some OSHA sanctions. If a student, expect to hear from a lawyer.

 

[StradivariusBone]

We have a pit lift and though not required by anyone who's concerned about such things, a few years back I bought some plastic yellow chain and dog clips along with some signs, "Caution" specifically I think. The hand rails on either side of our stage are a good height to clip the chain to. I train my kids to put the chain up any time we run the pit down, which during some seasons might be several times per week. Any time the pit is left down, the chain is left up with the signs attached. I'd love a net, but we can barely get them to do rigging inspections every other year. This is the next best thing. Additionally, we only drop it for performances maybe 2 times per year. A net wouldn't prevent someone falling in while we're making a pit run since it wouldn't be possible to install it every time we run the pit.