Operating moving lights on a Strand LAN using an Ion?

Footer, i feel your pain....
 
... Ethernet is a protocol, it has no cable.
Footer, jmabray: I'm as much of a stickler for proper terminology as anyone:twisted:, but...
When hanging lights, do you ask for
"a DMX cable,"
OR
"a cable meeting the required characteristics of EIA-485 (formerly RS-485) having two 5-pin XLR connectors of opposite gender installed on either end."
?
 
Footer, jmabray: I'm as much of a stickler for proper terminology as anyone:twisted:, but...
When hanging lights, do you ask for
"a DMX cable,"
OR
"a cable meeting the required characteristics of EIA-485 (formerly RS-485) having two 5-pin XLR connectors of opposite gender installed on either end."
?

No, I ask for a 3 pin or 5 DMX cable... and with my student I am lucky if I get a something resembling a "cord" as they like to call it.

My thing was running DMX over ethernet is real, ACN, Shownet, and all that good stuff do it. Now, running DMX over cat5 is another thing. I don't want people to get confused with that one.
 
If he were to convert his network run to a dmx run (bypassing all appropriate switches/routers/etc) then cable length would not likely be an issue. The length of the cable is not so much determined by the cable type, in this instance, as it is by the signal running down said cable. TCP/IP is limited to approx. 300 feet (100 M) either side of the switch (for a total length of 600 feet), but DMX can run for approx. 1500 feet.

That being said, I would too recommend taking a node and putting DMX into the front end converting it to shownet and then using a node to convert it to DMX on the back end.

It would go something like this -
CONSOLE--->DMX Cable--->NODE--->NETWORK CABLE---->WALL JACK-PHYSICAL CABLE PLANT-WALL JACK--->NETWORK CABLE--->NODE--->DMX CABLE--->FIXTURES, ETC.

If he has two nodes, more than likely they are physically set up to be DMX outputs. This shouldn't matter. While the physical connector may be that of an output, what signal the node handles is a function of the software. If he has the Strand 110 Nodes that were discussed earlier, he can hit those nodes with any web browser to adjust the software settings. He would just have to make sure that his IP addresses were set up properly to do so. All that being said, however, I would be very careful in trying to do this. If he doesn't know that much about his network and how it is set up, he could render that part of his system useless. But that's about what it is right now to him anyway....

I would suspect that the reason those nodes are not going to support ACN has more to do with the fact that during the buyout of Strand, they let all those software engineers that had worked on that product line of code go rather than any actual plans of Strand to discontinue the line, (If that makes any sense at all), but I wouldn't really know for sure.....

Ok I will try this before I start cutting cables and ordering stuff seeing as I have 2 SN110's. How do I configure it using my browser? I thought I just plug in my computers CAT5 and type in the displayed IP address but when I plug in the CAT5 the node does not come on?
 
jerekb, follow the links I posted above. One of the ESTA studies (Part 1 "Results of these tests indicated that Category 5 UTP cable performed as well as conventional DMX512 cable,") even showed DMX over UTP cable to be slightly MORE robust than the recommended Belden 2c +shld cable in some tests. Much of Nick Mobsby's book, Practical DMX recommends installing CAT5 UTP cable now and replacing the ends in the further when Ethernet is desired.

The only drawbacks to CAT5 cable are: 1]It has solid conductors and cannot withstand the flexing that stage cables endure, (not an issue if it's with conduit inside walls), and 2]The RJ-45 connectors are not designed for repeated plugging/unplugging (EtherCon is a ruggedized connector).

The fact that DMX512A is an asynchronous serial digital signal makes it inherently invulnerable to interference. The Pin1 portion is needed as a ground reference, but is not required to be an overall shield.

edit: BSR E1.27-2, Entertainment Technology - Recommended Practice for Permanently Installed Control Cables for Use with ANSI E1.11 (DMX512-A) and USITT DMX512/1990 Products, is a recommended practice for permanent data cabling installations for interconnecting lighting equipment that comply with ANSI E1.11 (DMX512-A) or with USITT DMX512/1990. The recommendations include definitions of acceptable cable and connector types and the ways in which they may be used. is currently under public review until 11/28/08. The review form, document, and review instructions are here: TSP - Published Documents - About TSP Documents, Published Documents, Public Review Documents, Procedural Documents.
Thank you sounds great but seeing as we have two nodes I will try that first before I order or cut cables but even so in the long run what you described sounds like it would work best.
 
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Ok I will try this before I start cutting cables and ordering stuff seeing as I have 2 SN110's. How do I configure it using my browser? I thought I just plug in my computers CAT5 and type in the displayed IP address but when I plug in the CAT5 the node does not come on?

You need a power over ethernet injector (or PoE injector). This goes between the computer and the node and will supply power to the node. I am sure you have one, you just have to find it.

If not, do this... put your node where it belongs and where it powers up, plug your laptop into where the console usually plugs in, set the laptop ip address to 192.168.0.222, subnet 255.255.255.0. Browse to the node address and you should be able to change the DMX output to Input. Move the node, and you should be set.
 
Ok I will try this before I start cutting cables and ordering stuff seeing as I have 2 SN110's. How do I configure it using my browser? I thought I just plug in my computers CAT5 and type in the displayed IP address but when I plug in the CAT5 the node does not come on?

I gotta tell ya, that while Footer is right in what he says, it doesn't sound like you know enough about how your system is configured and set up to do this. You might get it to work. But you also have a chance of screwing it up. If you do that, you will have a much harder time fixing it than someone who knows what they are doing.

If you decide to attempt this, good luck. But please be careful. There shouldn't be anything life threatening in what you are attempting, but since none us know your space, none of us can absolutely say that for sure. Please do be careful.
 
I second jmabray'http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/members/jmabray.htmls advice. Since we seem to have narrowed it down to a Strand ShowNet issue, I suggest asking on Strand Forums how to configure your SN110 nodes (link to pdf INstall Manual) for DMX input in the booth and output in the catwalks. One has to wonder why a ShowNet system was installed without any provisions for implementing it. :confused:

If you don't already have one, start building yourself a Male-Male 5-pin XLR gender changer or cable, to get from the console into an SN110 Node. Just in case, also pick up some additional A5Ms and A5Fs and short CAT5 cables should you need to abandon the ShowNet system and use the "DMX protocol over CAT5 cable" solution.http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/members/jmabray.html
 
Well I understand how the power injector works and everything as I have done a little experimenting the past couple weeks to see how the system is designed because it is a school and documentation and people who know anything about the system are hard too find (impossible). I was hoping I could configure the node passively so I did not have to change the IP of the computer because it is locked down by the school. I will bring in a laptop for this on monday and try it.
Meanwhile what are some of the things that I would want to be careful about doing that I could accidently mess something up?? All I need to do is change the output to input on one of the nodes correct? The manual makes it sound very easy.

P.S. Thank you everyone you've all been tons of help!!
 
Meanwhile what are some of the things that I would want to be careful about doing that I could accidently mess something up?? All I need to do is change the output to input on one of the nodes correct? The manual makes it sound very easy.

P.S. Thank you everyone you've all been tons of help!!

I have no idea how the Strand software for ShowNet functions, but typically, with my ETC Net2 Configuration Editor, once my laptop is setup to see the Net2 network, the Config Editor allows me to search for devices on the network in a discovery process. Once I see the nodes I need to configure, first thing I do is get the current config off the nodes and save that as a Config File - just in case I screw up and need to send it back. Note that the Net2 Config Editor allows me to just access/send to/get from a particular node(s), so I'm not mucking with the entire system.

I will then adjust the node(s) required and send changes to those nodes ONLY.

I'm then good to go. And it is a fast and painless process. The slowest part is getting the laptop configured onto the Net2 system.

I would be surprised if the Strand system didn't allow similar capabilities, as the Strand folks wrote some very smart software.

I was wary of the whole node concept when I first started spec'ing my system, thinking it was needlessly expensive and complicated. In practice, it's wonderful, as you can do so much with a node, dual outputs (mini'splitter), inputs, outputs, or both. Just keep a bunch of 5 pin DMX compliant turn-arounds (M to M and F/M to F/M) and you are in business.

Steve B.
 
So I just tried plugging the node into the PoE injector and plugged the laptop in every configuration imaginable and every time when I typed the IP of the node it said the page could not be found so it looks like we are giving up on the shownet and we are looking at the Cat5 to dmx or just running a dmx from the board to the cats.Unless you have any other ideas.
 
So I just tried plugging the node into the PoE injector and plugged the laptop in every configuration imaginable and every time when I typed the IP of the node it said the page could not be found so it looks like we are giving up on the shownet and we are looking at the Cat5 to dmx or just running a dmx from the board to the cats.Unless you have any other ideas.

Did you assign an IP address to the network card in your computer? Most lighting networks don't have a DHCP server on them, so you will need to manually assign an IP before can talk to the node.
 
Why has no one suggested this alternative?

Sell the nodes, and switch your DMX over Ethernet to the ENTTEC ODE with POE ( ENTTEC - ODEWITHPOE )

For each SN110 (~1000$) you could buy 3 or 4 of the ENTTEC units.

I'm in a similar situation at my theatre. I've got a Strand 300, 2x SN110 nodes. When I want to bring in a second console, the second console doesn't have access to the Scrollers or Intelligents because they're on the SN side of the network. I have to sacrifice one of my SN positions and bring it up to the booth and change it's config to "input".

Needless to say, I'm a little peeved at Strand right now. Why the heck can't they allow standards for interconnectivity (EDIT: I know ACN is coming... if their nodes are running some form of *nix, why didn't they release an ART-net option, to try to attract customers who have one of those systems), rather than relying on obsolescence to keep customers coming back to their hardware? This goes for any other manufacturer that isn't bothering to adopt industry-wide standards.

Any luck on finding that StrandNET > ARTNet "bridge" that ran on a PC with Linux? (EDIT: Found)

We're seeing good moves in the industry now towards interoperability... but why has it taken so long?
 
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Needless to say, I'm a little peeved at Strand right now. Why the heck can't they allow standards for interconnectivity, rather than relying on OBSOLESCENCE to keep customers...? This goes for any other manufacturer that isn't bothering to adopt industry-wide standards.

Any luck on finding that StrandNET > ARTNet "bridge" that ran on a PC with Linux?

Industry standards are going to be what the "industry" adopts, not a protocol from a particular manufacturer, be it, ArtNet, ETC Net2 or 3, or ShowNet.

Much has been written about ACN and the fact that it IS going to be the standard, and now we have to be patient while the manufacturers get it implemented. If it takes longer then you want, well too bad., and FWIW, ETC is implementing it on their Net3 systems.

You're being peeved at Strand is mis-placed, as they went with a perfectly usable Ethernet protocol for their own systems, when there was no standard, just like the good old days before DMX. It isn't obsolete, it's perfectly functional if you take the time to use it.

The fact that your second console doesn't speak ShowNet is not Strands fault, it's your choice and is solved by getting another node to keep at the console location to accept DMX inputs from a non-Strand console. Strand has promised that their ShowNet nodes are ArtNet capable, and they have been slow to get it out there, but would it have helped you at all ?, does your 2nd console speak ArtNet ?.

FWIW, ETC users face a similar and possibly more annoying issue if ACN becomes the ONLY standard, as a whole bunch of ETC Net2 4 port nodes, rack and portable, are not upgradable to ACN. I'm one of those users and I don't see it as "relying on OBSOLESCENCE to keep customers.", as I've already had 4 years of non-stop and successful usage of those nodes. Will they be obsolete in 10 years ?, maybe. But my Express is obsolete now and it still works and I have no complaints.

Steve B.
 

Good points, though my frustrations are mostly based on bad timing at the construction of our theatre; shortly after the doors were opened, the 300 was discontinued, and the new version of the Palette boards released.

True about the expandability to ACN, which will be nice, when it's developed and released.

I guess what I'm complaining about about (unrelated to this thread) is that I'm stuck with an out-dated board that's ridiculously expensive to upgrade, frustrates me to no end, and isn't the easiest thing to teach other people to use. (working in a school, trying to teach a student anything other than basic cues to program a 300 is less than pleasant.). The wireless remote barely works properly (it would, if I shelled out 2500$ for *their* pda, and *their* access point) because it's a proprietary communication system (why couldn't they have used something that would allow open source dev, or at least a communication standard that people could access and work with). In the meantime, I-- Oh nevermind. Back to the topic at hand.

I never said ETC were saints either. If more companies were getting together to sit down and design compatibility, or at least inter-opability down the road (IE: designing a structure for input/output plugins that could be written at a later date)

Side note: I finally found the Linux Based DMX-Over-Ethernet Translator. It seems to be the saving grace getting all of these systems to talk together. Once I build my translating box, I'll post details. My goal will be to either make it rack-mountable, or in the smallest form factor I can find...
 
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