Outboard Mixer to Control Hearing Impaired, Monitors, etc

@RonHebbard yeah audio isn’t my forte either.

Though I am quite familiar with NTSC and VGA. As back in that day I did video editing and DVD burning.
 
With the OP's presumed level of audio expertise the cost of installing the DSP, programming it and doing a system alignment will exceed the cost of the hardware. You can buy a lot of band-aid widgets for $5k and I'd guess that he has other needs with greater priority for that sum of money.

Don't get me wrong, Mike, I certainly agree your proposal is best practice - even if it's unrealistic for the specific task at hand. I've been trying to get our PAC downtown to do exactly what you propose and because the City doesn't know what it's doing with the 50 year old facility they're spending almost no money on things that don't heat/cool/power... and they've been dragging on needed replacements and improvements for a decade. So much of theatre is stop-gap, temporary 'fixes' even for relatively successful companies and venues.

The RDL widgets are cool but they easily eat up money if you need more than one or two.

Before you go too far down the rabbit hole financially, I would recommend evaluating what it would cost to replace your TOA's with a proper DSP rather than buying into replacements and extending the current functionality with other widgets and parts and pieces. $2500 for a Q-Sys Core 110f and you can replace and update a lot of the functionality you have, and make improvements upon what you can control and how well you can tune each of the zones.

Typically what I see for a DSP in this kind of space is some variation on this:

Inputs:
Left
Center
Right
House Mic Mid (because usually I spec a Shure VP88)
House Mic Side
Quick Mix 1,2,3,x
Page Mic 1,2,x
Aux Subs
Aux FF
Aux ALS
Aux Front of House 70V
Aux Back of House 70V
Booth Monitors (unless handled internal to console -- processing through DSP allows tuning these to behave as an extension of the main PA, and allows page mic's and house mic to feed into these whenever the console does not have something solo'd)
Stage Mon A, B, C, D (if semi-permanent, idiot-proof tuning is required, or if the console is analog and does not have EQ-per-output)

The DSP does all of the system tuning, handles the mixing for a console-free Quick Mix setup for a talking head style event, gives you all of the delays and EQ and ducking you could want, and derives each of the individual mixes you're looking for.

Usually that would be something to the effect of having a program mix derived from LR/LCR console feed and Quick Mix inputs. Then breaks out into individual processing/paging for each of the subsystems. Absent the derived program feed from the console, each subsystem follows the house mic. If the subsystem gets an Aux feed from the console, it ducks the program mix and emphasizes the aux feed. This is usually because you are riding the vocals on top of music. Hearing impaired and back of house systems want a touch of music and ambiance, but they need speech intelligibility first and foremost.

Similarly, subs/front fills/delays all take the derived program mix from LR/LCR unless you switch them into Aux-only mode. This way whenever you turn on the system, all of your different systems are broadcasting by default and you don't need to set up a discrete feed on the console for them every time. If you do drive a dedicated Aux feed, it only improves what those subsystems are doing.

Sets you up for being able to drive your system over Dante/AES67, and gives you the ability to run events without the console if it's just a talking head at one or two mic's.

Assistive-listening wise, it also means if you have an unamplified event you at least have some degree of ALS feed for hearing impaired coming in from your house mic.
 
With the OP's presumed level of audio expertise the cost of installing the DSP, programming it and doing a system alignment will exceed the cost of the hardware. You can buy a lot of band-aid widgets for $5k and I'd guess that he has other needs with greater priority for that sum of money.

Maybe so, but big picture it'll probably have to happen eventually at one stage or another.

The Q-Sys Level 1 training is free, so aside from the measurement tools (Smaart, AudioTools, PC40, what-have-you) needed for proper system alignment it's not outside of the realm of possibility for a determined individual to do much of the heavy lifting on their own. Depends on how well tuned the current system as to how complicated that gets to make sure you at least achieve the same level of performance. If any existing tuning is just delays and GEQ's, there's not really any risk in doing the switch-over.

From a higher level perspective, it takes a lot of burden off of the FOH console and the abilities/time of the FOH operator. Also gives you a platform for driving basic projector, screen, and power sequencing control off of the Q-Sys via iPad/iPhone/PC/touchpanel rather than hacking a Crestron-type system into the works somewhere if and when the venue needs it.

Food for thought before any $$$ gets spent.
 
Just curious but wouldn't something like the X32 Rack work here.
 
@MNicolai ,
I think you are absolutely correct in what would serve us best moving forward, especially as we are getting a bit more in to projection and 'plug-n-play' has been a common theme for certain types of events. Right now, of course, it is anything but.

For now, I may have to plunk the $130 on the RDL Audio Distribution Interface, but I am hoping that in the next few years we can start looking seriously at a full system replacement. The system we have started life as a center cluster with a dual 15 box and a couple of JBL horns. Apparently, it was felt by some that the position was at too steep of an angle so an "expert who knows all about sound" came in and spent ten grand on Bose arrays - basically three boxes lining each side of the audience chamber, not unlike the configuration of movie theatre surrounds. The center cluster is still there, but completely disconnected from the system.

DRC_ThinLineSaturday1 (1).jpg

Here's a slightly better picture (disclaimer:) from before I was hired and subsequently began maintaining the house lighting...
1492109406-DRC_ThinLineOpening1.jpg

As you can imagine, this brings with it a whole new set of problems, not only in the way it sounds (main reinforcement coming in from the sides), but the cable management leaves much to be desired. Lots of speaker wire fished through over-sized mouseholes, taped up the side of walls, etc. Luckily, it is all out of view of the audience, but it was very much a thrown-together attempt. Unfortunately, this was during my hiatus from the venue. So we really need to just gut it all and start again.

I have considered at least getting the main cluster back online, but the "expert" says it's blown. I don't buy it since there is no 'its'... There are multiple components up there. I just think he wants to justify not messing with it. Luckily, he doesn't have final say over what I decide, so whatever I push for will be weighed more heavily from now on.
 
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Seems like every region had someone 10-15 years ago running between venues proclaiming "This would be a great room for Bose Panaray!"

That's a bizarre sound system configuration you ended up with though. More designed for cinema, but even with cinema you want a strong signal coming from the front for intelligibility and proper localization and imaging of sound.

It could very well be that the center cluster has issues, but without investigation it's hard to know if it's total destruction or if it's more benign like the horns were wired out of polarity from one another and were causing serious phase cancellation. Even if the diaphragms are toast you can usually pick up replacements for not a whole lot of money depending on the model.

Looks like from the geometry of the room you would benefit from using front fills to cover the front few rows rather than trying to get speakers up at the center cluster position to hit those seats. Not sure if that was part of the issue with the clusters being too steep or if that's why they were steep. Hard to know without a section and without knowing more about what's hanging up there.
 

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