Pinspots - effectiveness

[SerraAva]

Seeing what you are working with, I think I would go with 50 or 70 degree Source Fours. With the 70s, you can do more, smaller holes per light. I think 90s would be far to large for your throw distance. You can also have them lamped 375w and put 5 on one 2400w circuit so your not wasting dimmers. A S4 at 375w is still going to be way more powerful then a bunch of 30w pin spots with a throw of 18' or so.

The problem with 70 degree lekos is that they are hard to come by. They are relatively new and the barrels themselves cost just about the same as a new S4 leko 19, 26, 36, or 50 would be for the whole fixture. I am actually making my local rental shop buy some 70s and 14s because I need those barrel sizes for an event next week to make sponsor gobos the sizes I need them. It can't hurt to see if your local shop has them.

 

[Pie4Weebl]

I think a wider beam spread from one unit would look awkward, when you think about shafts of light they are all parallel, so acls would be a better option.

 

[gafftaper]

I got some ACL lamps about a month ago and they run about $27 each then you have to have build/purchase something to hold them plus wire them up. Sounds like a lot more expensive.

My vote is still for S4's with gobos. To upgrade Brilliant's idea you could run four 575W S4's to a power strip then into a single 20 amp circuit (with no other load on it). Then you just have to flip the switch on the power strip to turn them all on safely. I would make sure you are using a good quality power strip, not a $2.99 plastic special. But other than that it should be safe. If you don't have 20 amp circuits split them into 2 per 15 amp circuit. If you have 750 watt lamps split them into 2 per circuit.

The problem with fog is it's going to be much more dense than haze. So pins would have a harder time penetrating the fog. You also need to blow it around really well.

What's this for anyway? The jr. version of Les Miserables?

 

[cvanp]

I'm getting a single pinspot to test (just to see for myself if it will work), but I think I'd like to try the ACLs too. The effect is going to be so short, literally less than five seconds per night, so I think renting Source Fours will just be too much for such a small effect. I'm still going to look into the price and all, but ultimately it just seems like I'm getting a massive light for a five second effect.

If I get ACLs though, do I just buy the bulb itself? I have a ton of DJ-level par cans lying around, would I just put the bulb into that and go from there if all the electric stuff checks out? Again it is a short effect so the short life doesn't concern me. We also have available wire and clamps so that really isn't a big deal either.

Thanks again everyone, I'm learning so much that I never would have been able to figure out on my own. This show is going to rock because of ControlBooth!

oh - Gafftaper - it's for a production of "Guys And Dolls". But it is going to be a very awesome production of Guys And Dolls, if I do say so myself.

 

[dimwatt]

I wonder if using narrow spot (or very narrow) PARs would give the effect you are after at a relatively modest cost, especially if you have the cans available. These have a somewhat longer expected life than the ACLs, so you would have them available to use in the future too.
Something like a PAR56 narrow spot or PAR 64 depending on the can size and beam width required.

 

[gafftaper]

I wonder if using narrow spot (or very narrow) PARs would give the effect you are after at a relatively modest cost, especially if you have the cans available. These have a somewhat longer expected life than the ACLs, so you would have them available to use in the future too.
Something like a PAR56 narrow spot or PAR 64 depending on the can size and beam width required.

Good call on the PAR cans if you used 500 watt lamps you could put four of them on the same 20 amp circuit through a power strip like we talked about before. Probably work just as well as the ACL's and it's cheaper than the Pins If you have the lamps already it's a free option.

Math time:
If the Pins are $20 you are going to pay around $25 with tax/shipping depending on the deal. The ACL's will cost you $25-$30 for the lamp plus a high amount of labor time to get them to work. PAR's are free if you have the right ones in stock If you don't then you are talking about $30 each for NSP PAR lamps. The Source fours will cost you a total of $30-$35 including tax for a week rental (depending on what the local price is). If we are talking about four lights then your price is about $100 for the Pins, $100-$120 for the ACLS, $120 for the PAR's, and $120-$140 for the S4's. For that little bit extra the S4's give you way more light than the pins, it's far less hassle than the ACL option, more concentrated than the PAR's. (I'm also not convinced the ACL's will give you the narrow beam you are looking for). Thus I say S4's, home made gobos, and a power strip. If you can get the S4's for free then hit a thrift store (Mom's old pan shelf) and get some metal pie pans/pizza pans (not the thin aluminum ones) and start making gobos for next to nothing.

 

[cvanp]

Response from my local theatre supplier (Syracuse Scenery and Stage Lighting):

We are an Altman ellipsoidal rental house. We do have the Shakespeare 50 units which rent for $14.00 per fixture per week.

Anyone familiar with any Albany-area rental houses that might have Source Fours? I'll be doing some research but if anyone knows of one that they've dealt with before that'd be helpful too.

Would Shakespeare 50s work for what I'm looking to do?

Thanks again

 

[gafftaper]

There are plenty of us who hate Shakespeares but for the few seconds they will be on at only $14 each they would be just fine. You won't have them long enough to learn to hate them. Sounds like a great solution. Cheaper than the pins and more punch... what size lamps do they come with?

 

[TupeloTechie]

yes, they both use "b" size gobos, and are both 50* beam angles, we have shakespeares at my school, and while not as great as a source four (there like source four in just about every aspect except for the lamp, not a hpl, so they're not as efficient) which might be a problem for your circuiting issues, they will accept a 575w lamp, but there not near the quality of a 575 hpl

either way, they will both achieve the same effect

 

[SerraAva]

Agreed gaff. Are S4 lekos really that much to rent in your area? I get them for about $13 a week with dount, gel frame, gobo holder, and on a base or with a clamp. Depending on order size, I might also get adpators thrown in for free as well. Didn't realize rental prices were that high else where.

 

[RiffRaff54]

Didn't realize rental prices were that high else where.

Um, my local rental house is $20 for 19, 26, 36, and 50 degree S4, and the 5 and 10s are $30. And they come with a saftey cable, color frame, and a C-clamp and a spare lamp usually.

 

[icewolf08]

If I get ACLs though, do I just buy the bulb itself? I have a ton of DJ-level par cans lying around, would I just put the bulb into that and go from there if all the electric stuff checks out? Again it is a short effect so the short life doesn't concern me. We also have available wire and clamps so that really isn't a big deal either.

If you have available cans then you can just get the bulbs. You will have to strip off the mogul base bi-pin connector that the PARs use as ACL's don't use that, they just have screw terminals. You just need to figure out the best way to convert the wiring, depending on if you want to be able to convert them back later.

 

[sound_nerd]

While the ACL's are a great idea for large shows (arenas and R&R concert spaces), I think they're too large for what you're asking. The ERS fixtures with a gobo might work, but no matter how wide the lens, you can still tell by the beam angles that it's coming from a 6" opening.
The pins should work fine, here's a picture from a recent concert I did. The rest of the rig was 48kW of PAR64's, and 12 MAC 250's. They cut through just fine, they are low wattage but such a narrow beam that it still works, as long as you're using contrasting colors to back them up.

 

[Brilliant2007]

A few years back the Rental guy at Syracuse Scenery was a guy named Steve. Real nice guy, give them a call, they are real easy to work with and you can probably work out a little bit better deal. I lived in the area until 2002...they were pretty much the only real players in town. Man I hated those Shakespeares though.

 

[cvanp]

A few years back the Rental guy at Syracuse Scenery was a guy named Steve.

Still is.

I'm going to try to get some Source Fours, otherwise I'll be renting Shakespeares, I think anyway. I have to think a bit about it tonight before I decide permanently.

 

[icewolf08]

Still is.
I'm going to try to get some Source Fours, otherwise I'll be renting Shakespeares, I think anyway. I have to think a bit about it tonight before I decide permanently.

You can also get a price for renting ACLs, many rental houses carry them, with lamps and all wired up so all you have to do is hook them up.

 

[cvanp]

Icewolf: the par cans we have are really cheap and are just screw terminals so in that sense ACLs would do the job. If by screw terminal you mean the same type of deal that a light bulb screws in... (I'm new to this lingo!)

 

[icewolf08]

what PARs do you have? I have not met a PAR64 with a screw base, so chances are the cans you have won't fit an ACL. By screw terminals I mean that on the back of the lamp are two terminals that you screw the wires down to. You can sort of see them in this photo:

The base that a standard light bulb screws into is a medium screw base, just for your edification.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Just to add. PAR's come in 16, 20, 30, 36, 38, 48, 56 and 64 sizes. The number corresponds to the diameter of the lamp in eights of an inch (1/8"). Thus, a PAR 64 is 8 inches in diameter. A pinspot is a low voltage PAR 36. An ACL is a low voltage PAR 64. Both pinspots and ACL's use screw terminals. Both pinspots and ACL's offer the tightest "pencil" beams because their low voltage nature allows for smaller, tighter filaments. No PAR above 38 comes with a medium Edison screw base.

 

[soundlight]

I'm gonna ask another quick question relating to pinspots - how much of a problem is it to place them on a dimmer if the dimmer is only ever at 0 or 100 percent (IE switched dimmer, but not a relay). This will be Leprecon LD-360HP dimmers. I'll have 5 pinspots per channel, and only one channel of each dimmer pack will be used for pinspots (the rest will be 5 PAR46 200W MFL units). Basically, how much damage would this actually do to the dimmer or the transformer? I usually preach the "don't ever, ever put inductive loads on a dimmer" philosophy, but you gotta do what you gotta do, and I want to know if this gotta do is worth it.