Design Please help :( New Cafetorium

[ttocsared]

Hello all,

The school I work at is adding onto the building and will be constructing a newcafeteria in the high school with a stage where productions will be held, (wedon't have an auditorium so I can't complain). They have asked me to come upwith what lighting we will need for theatre productions. I am new to this so Ireally need any help you might be able to give. We do one acts musicals, andtraditional plays. They haven't given me a budget. I know I can't just come upwith the "mother of all lighting requests or I won't get anything but I amlooking for what you think we would need as far as middle of the road fixturesand board. We also want some to be portable.

Thank you in advance for any help.

 

[JohnD]

Welcome ttocsaraed, you've come to the right place, [-]one thing tho, the blue font on a grey background is difficult to read. [/-]
Here is one thing from the WIKI: cafetorium - ControlBooth
There are also other variants of the name, auditeria, gymatorium, gymnatorium and others.
More information is called for, how big is the stage, where will it be located in relationship to the rest of the space, what kind of power will be available, the list goes on and on. You are sort of in a Catch-22 situation, no budget till you know what you need, and you can't really begin to plan without a budget. A search should bring up lots of hits, I remember one about protecting the main curtain from the well catsuped tater-tot projectiles.
The lowest budget option might be shoe box dimmers in various locations, several over the audience to provide front light on the stage and ers spotlights, then more on several electrics, usually pipe battens over the stage.
Here is some basic info from Mainstage (pdf warning) http://www.mainstage.com/PDFs/lighttheory7.pdf
Do you have any basic stagecraft of lighting books available? Do any local libraries?
Check out this list from the wiki, spend some time going through online catalogs of vendors. Good luck with your project.

 

[ttocsared]

Thank you so much. I wasn't going to change the color but when I first typedit and checked what I had written, it seemed like white on white writing and background. Sorry about that, lol. It is a 20 x 30 stage and they havent decided on dedicated power source yet. Since they haven't started construction they are waiting to see what I come up with I suppose(no pressure :/). Thank you for the link as well!

 

[JohnD]

First off, your new best friends might be these folks:
Barbizon Lighting Company
Barbizon is very well respected and they are a sponser of CB, not a bad thing. Having a local vendor is a great thing, they can give you lots of hand holding support, and can bail you out if you get into a jam.
I mentioned the shoe box route which really isn't the best idea, the next step up might be distributed dimming, check out the smart series from ETC.
Lighting solutions for Theatre, Film & Television Studios and Architectural spaces : ETC
On that page is a link to the smart series brochure.
The next step up would be a portable dimmer pack, something like this:
Lighting solutions for Theatre, Film & Television Studios and Architectural spaces : ETC
The next step up would be an intalled system:
Lighting solutions for Theatre, Film & Television Studios and Architectural spaces : ETC
Remember that google is also your friend:
images cafetorium - Google Search
My goodness, thats a long url.
Other things to consider, how will the cafeteria be lit, metal halide or flouresents, or dimmable lights. How will you control them.
Will you have some type of booth or other secure area for sound and light control.

 

[JohnD]

How much lighting do you need to be portable? Where will you be using them? How much power and what kind will be available there? Don't you just love all these questions. For example, if you just need to have a couple of lighting trees available, you could use the smartbars or smartmodules and perhaps 4 fixtures per tree.
I also haven't mentioned the use of led fixtures yet. I very much like having a lighted cyc, it opens up lots of great looks, even in limited rigs. That is where led fixtures can make sense. A great example is the Phillips/Strand/Selecon PLCYC1.
PLCYC1 LED Luminaire
When you consider the cost of this fixture versus 3 or 4 circuits of standard 500watt cyc fixtures and the related dimming and power needed, I think you come out ahead.
You also don't need a cyc drop if your space is designed with a smooth, un-interupted back wall. This alone can be a big economic factor.
Here is a video review of the PLCYC1:
[video]http://vzaar.com/videos/1060894[/video]
Note: In that review, are those fixtures on the truss held up with zipties?

 

[ttocsared]

Great stuff! Thank you so much. I have been looking at everything you posted and came across another brand I am not familar with. Do you know anything about Chauvet lighting?Any good? They have packages listed on their site and some are specified by stage size (ours will be 30 x 20) etc.

Stage Lighting Packages

 

[Les]

One of the biggest lighting problems I've encountered in cafetoriums is sunlight through windows... Implore them to install motorized shades!

As to actual stage lighting (I'm assuming a stage of about 30' wide and 20' deep and used for mid-level productions):

-I imagine the cafeteria will be primarily fluorescent-lit. Spec out performance-use only incandescent/quartz recessed cans, pendant downlights, or whatever fits best in to the architecture of the building that is dimmable (but not dimmable CFL if you can help it). For the energy-minded design team, Altman has the Chalice LED houselight. It's apparently very nice.

-Distributed dimming might be an awesome thing in this case. Altman has come out with the Smart Track, and ETC has similar solutions (The SmartBar is cool).

-I'd drop no less than 18 circuits at FOH. 24 would be great; more = better.

-3 electrics on stage; even if they're just stationary pipe (as they so often are in cafetoriums). 12 circuits each would be awesome. You could probably get by with 6-8 but hey; as long as we're dreaming...

-Multiple floor pockets on stage (always an oversight in cafetoriums).

-Floor pockets in the cafeteria for FOH lighting trees. Have them mounted in the walls if possible; otherwise you may have a problem with wax and food-gunk clogging them up. I'd have some near the proscenium, mid-way back and on the far back wall. I worked in a cafetorium once that was set up in three "tiers". Nice design for viewing the stage, and would've been a great place for those wall pockets.

-Conveniently-placed 20-amp circuit in the cafeteria for a followspot.

-DMX/Cat5 and 20-amp constant-on circuits at all these locations.

-DMX In run to the cafeteria and backstage for the console.

Maybe that'll provide some starting points. I've outlined a pretty large system for a cafetorium. I'd say shoot high because they will inevitably try to talk you back. If you do more LED on stage, you can reduce your circuit counts, but I'd still allow some room for conventionals. I would still get a professional consultation, but hopefully some of the ideas in this thread will give you some talking points and things to add to the wishlist.

 

[kicknargel]

As I always say in these situations, I STRONGLY advocate getting a lighting design professional to see your space or review your plans and consult on your lighting needs. This should NOT be the person selling you the equipment. I have seen "well-respected" vendors install outdated, subpar equipment in schools, maybe to clear out old stock, or just because the margin was better. Call any local pro theaters and see if they have someone who will volunteer a few hours of consultation. Whether they do a spec first, and you let vendors bid on fulfilling that spec, or you have your consultant review the packages proposed by vendors, getting a knowledgable unbiased second opinion is crucial.

I bet CB would even review any quotes you got to look for glaring problems, but someone who's familiar with the space would be better.

 

[museav]

What power may be available, the ambient light control possible, the architectural lighting requirements and how the theatrical lighting may integrate with that are definite potential factors. So might be the dimensions of the room and stage, the ceiling height, the ceiling construction and so on. You may also find yourself facing LEED or other energy saving requirements or goals trying to be applied.

There may also be considerations in how the work has to be documented and procured. For example, Les mentioned floor pockets, but who is going to define what those are and where they are located, document their being provided, review what is proposed to be provided, and verify that what you get is what it should be and is installed properly? And what about any related structural and/or heat loads and coordinating pipe locations with lights, HVAC ducts and diffusers, sprinkler heads, speakers, etc.? That kind of coordination often gets overlooked or everyone assumes someone else is addressing it. Since it is new construction I assume there is an Architect and Electrical Engineer involved so it might be worth discussing what they are currently planning and what information they need to have provided. That might also help you assess whether you feel you need some help.

 

[Goph704]

Of the packages that you posted which one caught your eye? Also when you ask for portable equipment, what specifically has to move?

 

[MPowers]

I know you asked for advice on Lighting but I'm going to offer a quick thought on curtains. IF it's not too late and IF there are to be curtains, make sure you get IFR Polyester Velour, such as K&M Plateau, Crescent, Charisma or similar. DO NOT let them put flame treated cotton velour in the space. Why you ask? Well, first of all, it's a cafeteria. There are kids, there is food. You do the math. The IFR = Inhearently Flame Resistant for the life of the fabric. Treated cotton fabric must be re-treated at intervals dependant on your local codes and AHJ, usually 5 or 10 year intervals. It also must be retreated after any washing or spot cleaning involving water, which includes accidental spills from lunch time drinks, including milk, water, juice and soda. IFR Poly can be hand washed, machine washed, spot washed, etc and never needs retreating. Last but not least, the poly is more durable and resists abuse better.