Power conditioner? Surge Protector? How to power rack of receivers for sennheiser g4

[DannyDepac]

Hey Everyone

I have put together a rack of about 16 (hoping to expand) Sennheiser G4 receivers and Antenna modules.

So I am a school music teacher that does our HS stage crew on the side and in the grand scheme of things, I am kind of a sound noob who is learning as I go. So maybe there is an obvious solution but how should I power all of that and keep it neat? Currently I have surge protectors as my power source but I feel like thats not smart and its definitely messy.

I have used furman rack mount power conditioners for my bass amps in the past so that is my inkling but is that the best method? I have a lot of plugs to handle so should I just get multiple ? Does anyone have a suggestion for a model? Maybe with room to expand ?

Any help is welcome. If you want pictures of the back of the rack, I'd be glad to supply.

Thanks in advance

 

[urban79]

Are you using antenna distribution? Sennheiser can be powered from the bnc connector and so for me, two wall warts power 8 of my receivers. 16 individual sets of antennas is probably not ideal...

 

[DannyDepac]

Are you using antenna distribution? Sennheiser can be powered from the bnc connector and so for me, two wall warts power 8 of my receivers. 16 individual sets of antennas is probably not ideal...

Thanks for responding. It is so funny you said that because this morning I thought I remembered that was a feature of the antenna distribution - I have the both going into that and also into surge protectors.. Not anymore. Thanks so much. I can't believe the BNC carry enough charge!

 

[urban79]

Thanks for responding. It is so funny you said that because this morning I thought I remembered that was a feature of the antenna distribution - I have the both going into that and also into surge protectors.. Not anymore. Thanks so much. I can't believe the BNC carry enough charge!

It's so convenient!

 

[NickVon]

It does

Thanks for responding. It is so funny you said that because this morning I thought I remembered that was a feature of the antenna distribution - I have the both going into that and also into surge protectors.. Not anymore. Thanks so much. I can't believe the BNC carry enough charge!

It does as part of the design spec for Sennheiser's EW, and higher system, but not necessarily true for other brands. It is a great feature of the Sennheiser EW series for there price over other brands. Though most other brands if you buy there anntenna distro, will have power distro as part of the system as well. Also interesting fact, that i'd say 90% if not 100% of all RF and power distro for wireless mics, are interchangeable regardless of brand.

 

[Ben Stiegler]

so back to your question - surge protection at a minimum in front of the rack. voltage stabilizer/SP like the $2xx Furman is worth it. How are you protecting the rest of the audio system chain?

Also if you are a noob - share with us the details of your antenna and antenna cabling design, and a picture and space plan for your theater. there's a lot that goes into proper gain staging in distributed antenna systems as well as optimal antenna placement.

What is your console?
Are the receivers located at the console, or in the orchestra pit or stage wings?
With 16+, how are you selecting frequencies, and are you taking spectrum scans locally to identify other strong signal sources which the FCC database might not accurately represent?

you can catch me offline [email protected] if desired

good luck!

 

[DannyDepac]

so back to your question - surge protection at a minimum in front of the rack. voltage stabilizer/SP like the $2xx Furman is worth it. How are you protecting the rest of the audio system chain?

Also if you are a noob - share with us the details of your antenna and antenna cabling design, and a picture and space plan for your theater. there's a lot that goes into proper gain staging in distributed antenna systems as well as optimal antenna placement.

What is your console?
Are the receivers located at the console, or in the orchestra pit or stage wings?
With 16+, how are you selecting frequencies, and are you taking spectrum scans locally to identify other strong signal sources which the FCC database might not accurately represent?

you can catch me offline [email protected] if desired

good luck!

Thanks so much. I am currently working on getting my Paddles mounted since we are in the midsts of a auditorium redo (I wash considering another post for this) I'm not sure where the best place to put them. I am hoping to place the rack of receivers in the sound booth (upper / back auditorium) but in the past they were always in the pit to get the best signal. My school is willing to run the BNC Cables to the booth for me. Any input is welcome on placement of antennas In the end I'll have around 4 antenna arrays for paddles for all will need to be mounted right? - Auditorium is around 100 feet from edge of stage to back wall.

The Board is brand new and not in place yet - I heard it is a SoundCraft. I have an X32 that I guess will become our backup.

I select frequencies by doing a scan in setup menu before the show and repeat for new performances.


I currently have 12 setups on Band AW+ g4 - 500 series and I want to add at least 4 more. (I believe I can run up to 32 on this band right?)

Thanks in advance

 

[Ben Stiegler]

Four paddles is likely 2x what you should need. Cascade outputs on the antenna splitters are the path from a single antenna pair.
What antennas? Some have gain, others do not. Need to do gain loss budget on the entire RF signal path. Too much is as bad as too little and you don’t want to be amplifying (raising the noise floor)

See the Ethernet jacks on the receivers? Connect them all to a switch and a laptop. Download sennheiser mic control software. Use it for spectrum analysis and choosing locking frequencies. Safety scan before each show but should not need massive redeployment. I can screen share with you if you like- bit of a learning curve in the software but completely worth it at the channel count you are using.

Paddles at 100’ from stage often works fine but depends on many variables. Because of new 5g frequencies which will be arriving in your audiences pockets with increasing frequency (sorry), freq selection and band pass filters are important considerations in the antenna placement and cabling path design. Pl

 

[RonHebbard]

Four paddles is likely 2x what you should need. Cascade outputs on the antenna splitters are the path from a single antenna pair.
What antennas? Some have gain, others do not. Need to do gain loss budget on the entire RF signal path. Too much is as bad as too little and you don’t want to be amplifying (raising the noise floor)

See the Ethernet jacks on the receivers? Connect them all to a switch and a laptop. Download sennheiser mic control software. Use it for spectrum analysis and choosing locking frequencies. Safety scan before each show but should not need massive redeployment. I can screen share with you if you like- bit of a learning curve in the software but completely worth it at the channel count you are using.

Paddles at 100’ from stage often works fine but depends on many variables. Because of new 5g frequencies which will be arriving in your audiences pockets with increasing frequency (sorry), freq selection and band pass filters are important considerations in the antenna placement and cabling path design.

@DannyDepac & @ben Stiegler I believe losses per foot and per connector are far greater at RF frequencies than at balanced mic or line level audio frequencies.
If there's a choice to be made, extend the audio leads in preference to extending (&/or) adding connectors to the RF. And then there's fiber.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[Ben Stiegler]

Hi Ron,

its not quite that simple now. If the RF receiver rack is 100% remoted and managed with a software dashboard, then sometimes the rack belongs in the orchestra pit. But using directional diversity antennas near rear of house is often preferable for those moments when performers move out into the aisles or audience areas - which would be in the null zone of many flat antennae. Extending 16x audio circuits over analog the full depth of the house is often challenging (insufficient snake pairs free, interference pickup, more metal to metal connectors to cause problems.). Using Dante if the console and receivers are designed to handle can eliminate some of that. But I always start with a holistic look at how the space will be used for this production, and how it might be used in future ones (ditto church services). On Xmas, we have a pastor in the rear balcony, or kids singing from over there, etc. If there's gonna be permanent infrastructure mounted (like paddle antennae and low-noise coax), designing for as many use cases as can be accomodated is wise both for engineering and budgetary reasons. ok, off the soapbox for now!

 

[macsound]

Since we're on this topic, when antennas have stated frequencies on them, does that mean they have a band pass filter installed? Or they're just most useful/ intended for that frequency range?

2 example screen shots

 

[Ben Stiegler]

The freq range does NOT imply any sort of useful for stopping interfrerence band-pass filters. Those must be specifically added separately , and you need to think about where they go (at the antenna end or the coax? or the antenna splitter?) based on the gain staging of the antenna cable and any RF amplifiers which might be in line. Fun!