Power Conditioner ?, UPS ?

[SteveB]

So my APC UPS at my Ion console died this morning.

I admit I've been lackadaisical about changing the battery every year like APC recommends, so it overheated and crapped.

Right now I'm on a cheapo surge protector/strip.

Question is replace the UPS ? (it's over 5 years old, maybe 10), get just a decent power conditioner ?, skip it all and just run a power strip.

Our power is not bad, it's NYC ConEd and underground, so no worries about lightning. The voltage runs hi at 123-125 or so, but rarely if ever spikes - AFAIK.

And I know that if we spike into a momentary outage, the Sensor dimmer racks with CEM+ is going to take about as much re-boot time as the console, so wondering why I'm using a UPS anyway.

Learned opinions well received.

 

[ScottT]

To me a UPS is more about being able to save the work I've done then it is keeping the console up for the audience. If the console is down, move to the other console, if that one's down then... Well the power is probably totally out.

Having said that I have had people pull the power on my tech table without a UPS, and without a tracking backup. A cursing storm always follows.

 

[BobHealey]

Given most modern consoles run a PC operating system, and they really don't like having the power yanked out from underneath them, a ups is probably a good idea

 

[NateJanota]

To me a UPS is more about being able to save the work I've done then it is keeping the console up for the audience. If the console is down, move to the other console, if that one's down then... Well the power is probably totally out.

Having said that I have had people pull the power on my tech table without a UPS, and without a tracking backup. A cursing storm always follows.

Perfectly stated. This is especially important if your console is one of the primary drivers on the network (not a slave or backup). If you ever suffer a power outage and your network fails, means of backing up a show to a secondary networked console or NPU may fail, and that could just add to your headache. Here at Universal, loss of power causes both network outages and our Hog to die; without the power backup, no saving occurs and a lot of additional consequences result.

 

[JD]

Anything that reads and writes to memory should have a UPS on it in my book. It isn't the reboot that is the problem, it is the corruption of memory that can be a bigger issue, especially if you end up with that being in a boot sector.
Been using the APCs for many years. Once a year is a bit of a waste. With what the batteries cost, once every 3 years just buy a new UPS. Remember, the MOVs degenerate with time, so the effectiveness of surge suppression diminishes as the unit ages.

 

[BobHealey]

APC batteries last 3-5 years. I've had to extract some that have swollen up before. The UPS unit is generally salvagable though. Do some googling around PC support fora, but it is probably possible to extract and replace the battery. If its a lower end UPS (not a SmartUPS), you might want to replace it with a nicer unit that produces cleaner power.

 

[SteveB]

OK, I'm sold.

The best reason stated IMO, is avoiding a bad shutdown and potential damage to the HD, etc...

Time to head to the computer store.

Thanks all for the replies.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

FWIW, APC *used to* have the top rep in small UPSs, but they don't anymore.

TrippLite is probably a better bet nowadays.

And yes, every 2 years is probably enough to replace the batteries.

 

[dvsDave]

Last time Iwe did a whole server room spec out, tripplite came out on top. Both in feature and budget. Much better display and more configurable USB interface.

 

[RonHebbard]

Last time Iwe did a whole server room spec out, tripplite came out on top. Both in feature and budget. Much better display and more configurable USB interface.

Anybody care to vote for the wonders of Surgex, both their UPS's and their surge suppressors. Definitely not known for low cost solutions but very much of the 'buy once, cry once' mind set.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

For what it's worth, I have been doing IT for 30 years and I've never heard of SurgeX

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[STEVETERRY]

OK, I'm sold.

The best reason stated IMO, is avoiding a bad shutdown and potential damage to the HD, etc...

Time to head to the computer store.

Thanks all for the replies.

Have a look at CyberPower. I got sick of throwing away multiple APC units, and I've been very happy with CyberPower.

ST

 

[bdkdesigns]

I have CyberPower at home and love them. Went to buy one for our sound island but the Tripplite had a massive sale so I went with that. My light board is currently on an APC because those were on sale when mine died last year. Out of all of those, I like the CyberPower the most with APC in dead last.

 

[RonHebbard]

For what it's worth, I have been doing IT for 30 years and I've never heard of SurgeX

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You have my sympathies.
Better known by AES members in commercial broadcast and pro' recording studio markets than IT. Definitely on the cutting edge when it comes to spike suppression and handling same with reduced ground contamination.
Edited to reduce my 'snark level'.
Edited again to mention AES members.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[Brentgi]

Anything that reads and writes to memory should have a UPS on it in my book. It isn't the reboot that is the problem, it is the corruption of memory that can be a bigger issue, especially if you end up with that being in a boot sector.

Agreed. I was going to say this, but you beat me to it.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

I was fine with the snark. This isn't my first rodeo. I have spent a fair amount of time on the production side of the fence, though, and I'm a little surprised I still haven't heard about them.

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[TJCornish]

Whether preventing a loss of console power in your particular venue with a $100-$300 UPS is worthwhile or not depends on what kind of shows you do, but I wanted to comment about "memory corruption". This really hasn't been a thing for a decade or more. All of the major operating systems - PC, Mac, and Linux use journalized file systems which means that a loss of power may result in losing a little bit of unsaved data, but you're not going to corrupt the operating system. How well the console app running on the host operating system copes is another question, but in most cases you should come back up fine - at least to the point you last saved your show file.

RE APC - I agree with other posters - the price premium these days is for the brand name, not technology.

RE Surgex - I own one piece of Surgex gear and it has worked fine. I also have some Furman SMP devices that claim similar levels of protection for 1/2 the Surgex price that have also worked fine.

I researched this and Surgex claims that any device with a MOV (which most "surge protection" devices use including Furman SMP) is bad, as during a surge event the MOV may shunt fault current to the neutral or ground wires which may be worse than doing nothing. Also, MOVs will eventually fail and start leaking current to ground, which causes noise. Furman claims that though they use MOVs, they are not the primary suppression component, and therefore don't take the big current hits like they would if they were the only shunt device, meaning they last much longer.

Surgex's stance is if you are protecting $50,000 worth of equipment, the difference between spending $150 or $500 for surge protection is immaterial. I have opened my Surgex product and can tell you that there aren't $500 worth of components in there. I'm curious when their patent expires - there's definitely a business opportunity.

Any simple "Surge protector" with only MOV protection is more harm than good (first hand experience with this) and gets opened up for a MOV-ectomy.

 

[FMEng]

You have to differentiate the type of UPS when considering what it can accomplish. A line-interactive UPS passes the AC line to the load under normal circumstances, then switches the load to the inverter when the AC line drops below the threshold. The switching is done by a relay with a tell-tale click. Any surges and spikes on the AC line that are below the clamp voltages on the MOVs get passed right to the load. A line-interactive UPS is, basically, only good for keeping things running to allow an orderly save and shutdown. This type of UPS offers little more protection than a $20 plug strip.

A true-online UPS powers the load from the inverter at all times. Under normal circumstances, the AC line is rectified and filtered to DC and the DC feeds the inverter. No switching occurs because the battery and inverter are powering the load at all times. Any surges and spikes are absorbed and/or regulated by the battery and inverter. The battery and inverter make a very effective brick wall for any nastiness on the AC line.

I have hard won experience with equipment at mountain top tower sites, where lightning and poor power quality is common. If you want to really protect your equipment, true-online is the only way to go. True online is always significantly more expensive for a given load size, and most manufacturers offer both types.

Another good approach for power conditioning is a ferro-resonant transformer. A ferro passes nothing but a 60 Hz sine wave and regulates the voltage to around +/- 2%. The upsides are no batteries to fail and a very simple, highly reliable device. The downside is that the size, weight, and cost is similar to a UPS. The Sola Hevi Duty MCR series is a good example. If you don't need battery backup, a ferro offers extremely effective protection.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Continuous UPSs are six to ten times the cost of the switchover variety, yes. If you get up much over say 5 KVA, it's cost-effective to build your own DC plant at that point using standard Telco components.

Ferros behind the inverters will smooth things out wonderfully. But note that ferros suck up a lot of power and turn it into heat.

For those who are not familiar with ferroresonant autotransformers, they are effectively giant LC circuits, very narrowly resonant at 60.00Hz

Since there are massive amounts of copper and steel involved, they will suck up spikes like nobody's business and smooth out your 60 hertz by taking all the harmonics off of it. But they will only hold up the output voltage for four cycles, if the input voltage goes away.

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[Jay Ashworth]

Whether preventing a loss of console power in your particular venue with a $100-$300 UPS is worthwhile or not depends on what kind of shows you do, but I wanted to comment about "memory corruption". This really hasn't been a thing for a decade or more. All of the major operating systems - PC, Mac, and Linux use journalized file systems which means that a loss of power may result in losing a little bit of unsaved data, but you're not going to corrupt the operating system.

Older Ion's are running on XP embedded and a non-NTFS filesystem, so it's likely this doesn't apply there. I expect they're not the only ones.