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power conditioner

Discussion in 'Sound, Music, and Intercom' started by w3st0n21, May 27, 2009.

  1. w3st0n21

    w3st0n21 Active Member

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    hello all.

    my school is getting new amps in our auditorium (current one is prob as old as the school, as in very old). we are concered about people not shutting down the system correctly and turning the board off before the amps and then blowing the speakers. is there a power conditioner that will turn the board on then amps (for on) and amps off then board(for off) with the flip of one switch??
     
  2. gpforet

    gpforet Active Member

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    What you are referring to is a power staging module, or power stager. You tell it the sequence, the time delay between devices, and then control the entire system from one switch. The are usually called sequential power distribution and are available from Furman as the ASD120.
     
  3. w3st0n21

    w3st0n21 Active Member

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    Thank you! How much are these cost wise??
     
  4. Eboy87

    Eboy87 Well-Known Member

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    You can get the ASD 120 from Sweetwater for around $680. If memory serves, Furman also makes a smaller one. I remember it being 1RU, but I've never used it. Heard about it in passing.
     
  5. DaveySimps

    DaveySimps CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    Keep in mind that, depending on where your amps are in relation to the rest of your gear, the installation of the sequencer may been a considerable cost in addition to the unit itself. If your amps are in a remote room, and the rest of your gear is in a control room, you will need to run wires (either control wires or actual power lines) to the amps room / area in order for them to be tied into the sequencer.

    ~Dave
     
  6. museav

    museav CBMod CB Mods Departed Member

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    Occupation:
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    This definitely has to be planned as you have to consider the number and rating of the AC circuits involved, the quantity and rating of the equipment involved, the location of the equipment, potential requirements by local code officials to power down the amps or system during emergencies, how any UPS devices or circuits fit in and so on.

    There are a variety of approaches to this. There are semi-custom hardwired power distribution strips that mount inside the rack and tie to controllers (Middle Atlantic, Atlas Sound, etc.). There are integrated boxes that provide a number of switched receptacles off one circuit, some incorporate the sequencing or act as a master unit while others may be slaves that are controlled by a master unit (SurgeX, JuiceGoose, Furman and so on). Sequencing can also be performed at an electrical distribution panel (Lyntec and Lowell). In addition to sequencing/switching, many units also provide some form of surge suppression, a few may provide some power conditioning.

    There can also be code issues to consider. For example, a code official may well consider a box with outlets on it and a cord you plug into a receptacle the same as a plug strip, meaning that by NEC you cannot plug another power strip into it. And you probably want to avoid putting a 15A rated sequencer in between a 20A circuit, which is common in commercial buildings, and an amp or device load that can draw more than 15A.
     
  7. w3st0n21

    w3st0n21 Active Member

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    Hmmmm...i think that's a lot more than we could pay for. But anyways, thhe amps and board are like 4 feet away from each other
     
  8. Thefoxygranpa

    Thefoxygranpa Active Member

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    If thats out of the price range, and you still want to protect the equipment, is wherever you keep your gear locked? Only trained personnel should have access to the equipment, and know how to properly power and shut down the system. So simply only allow those who have proper knowledge be allowed to even get in the room with the gear:grin:
     
  9. w3st0n21

    w3st0n21 Active Member

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    I would agree. But because it's a school, it's a public place and I can't be here during the summer to turn the system on and off...
     
  10. Sony

    Sony Active Member

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    Depending on how powerful your setup is, you could get away with something like this.

    Furman | PS-PRO Series II 8-Outlet Power Conditioner | PS-PRO II

    At $350 it may be more in your price range and does not require professional installation.

    It can only supply 20 amps, but if all you have if 1 or 2 800 watt amplifiers then thats fine. Since your board is so close to your amps then it should be no problem to install one of these into your rack and connect it. If you need more than 20 amps then you're a bit out of luck and anything above 20 amps is going to require an electrician to come in and possibly wire up a larger outlet, more expensive equipment....etc.
     
  11. w3st0n21

    w3st0n21 Active Member

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    It's goiing to be two 500 watt amps (900w. Bridged). And the board, 32 chan. Mackie mixer
     
  12. museav

    museav CBMod CB Mods Departed Member

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    What about sources, processing, etc.? Are both of the amps and the mixer currently plugged into the same receptacle/power strip or are they possibly on different circuits? The amps may be 4' from the mixer but do the power cords for both amps and the mixer all reach a common location where you could mount a sequencer? Do you want something that requires a key to operate or where a key can be used to lock others out?

    The rated power of the amps is not a good indicator, the relevant information is really the current the amp draws in your application. This information is usually provided by the amp manufacturers, if you can tell us the amp models involved, how they are wired (stereo or bridge and the speaker load impedance) and what types of events you have (e.g. mostly speech or loud bands) we might be able to find this information.
     
  13. w3st0n21

    w3st0n21 Active Member

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    We havnt installed the amps yet. It's going to be done over the summer, and I THINK it's going to be bridged mono. The board and current amp are in the same recepticle, so that shouldn't be a problem.
     
  14. BillESC

    BillESC Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    With respect to the AC Sequencer, you stated it was probably more than the school could afford. Can they afford to replace one or both amps and or speakers if they get fried?
     
  15. w3st0n21

    w3st0n21 Active Member

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    Well the amps we have had for band and chorus...but that's a very good point. Right now we never even turn the amp off, because 1)it's old. 2) that's how it's always been done 3) it's only about 150 watts so no one thought it would hurt anything. But now with 900watts (and a new center cluster) I would hope they would make the right choice and spend the $$$ now to save their a** in the future when some "outsider" screws with it. Sorry, that went on a bit
     
  16. chadgreen

    chadgreen Member

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    We got one of these for our church and it has worked pretty well for us. It has separate power processing with regard to power draw. We run one crown ce1000 and a mackie board as well as eq etc. It has a built in sequencer for what you are asking for. Check the specs to make sure it will handle you needs.

    Monster Power PRO 2500 PowerCenter | Sweetwater.com
     
  17. renegadeblack

    renegadeblack Active Member

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    At my school, we have one of these dealies:

    FurmanSound.com - Pro A/V Product - PS-8 R

    I never noticed the remote trigger thing, I think that our model doesnt have that, but if you're looking for something simple, then you don't need that.

    I don't know how much it runs for.
     
  18. TheDonkey

    TheDonkey Active Member

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    Not sure of the exact name of a device like this, but I'm sure they make some form of "power strip" with a switch for every plug, plug the items in order, then put a big sign near the switches that says "TURN ALL ON LEFT TO RIGHT, OFF RIGHT TO LEFT"

    and so on.
     
  19. renegadeblack

    renegadeblack Active Member

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    When possible, its nice to make things idiot proof. People often don't read and it only takes one person to screw it up once. Plus, the sequencers do more than just split outlets, they also condition the power.

    I'm wondering though, if you have a compressor in-line, would that remove the pop from the feed before it makes it to the amps?
     
  20. mixmaster

    mixmaster Active Member

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    In theory it could work...possibly. In any practical sense, not likely. You would need to set the comp just right. You would need a real fast attack to catch the transient. There would also be a concern that the threshhold would have low enough to trigger on the pop but not so low as to compress loud program material. And that's assuming that you could get enough gain reduction fast enough to stop the transient. It would be better to have a hard limiter, thereby protecting the system from spikes (maybe) and long term overpowering. I'm still not even sure that a limiter would catch a power transient like you're talking about.
     

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